Programmer's PM definition 1

[pgmr777]

Backdoor way into IT for people who can't do any actual work.

 

[johnherman]

Perhaps sometimes. But not always true as many IT PMs have a technical background.

==================================
adaptive uber info galaxies (bigger, better, faster, and more adept than agile big data clouds)

 

[jtb]

pgmr777 appears to be trying to complain about one or more folks with whom he has had contact. He might benefit from meeting a real PM.

JTB
Have Certs, Will Travel
"A knight without armour in a [cyber] land."

 

[philhege]

pgmr777 appears to be trying to complain about one or more folks with whom he has had contact. He might benefit from meeting a real PM.

I wish him good luck in his search. In my experience "real", effective PMs are scarce as hen's teeth. (And highly valuable, too!)

-----------
With business clients like mine, you'd be better off herding cats.

 

[pgmr777]

Useless spreadsheet jockeys. Spewers of meaningless bs buzzwords. Living in their own made-up world with delusions of control. Contributing nothing to the actual work. Indeed obstacles to it.

 

[johnherman]

@pgmr777 == I disagree with your sweeping generalization regarding PMs. Some PMs probably say to themselves "Dumb programmers, stuck in their own little world with no idea about the big picture". And they might very well be right some of the time. But generalizations can get you in trouble. Fortunately for you, PMs are not protected under the clause "religion, race. color, creed, national origin, age, gender, disability, sexual preference, etc".

==================================
adaptive uber info galaxies (bigger, better, faster, and more adept than agile big data clouds)

 

[pgmr777]

It boils down to this my friend, programmers can do just fine, better even, without the PMs, but not the reverse. Without the programmers' actual work to leech off of, "project managers" would not exist. Your "project plan" exists only in your head, there is no reality attached to it, it is just an abstraction. The programmers create the reality. Remember this in your next project meeting: the programmers are just telling you what you want to hear to make you go away for a little while. Sorry..

 

[johnherman]

We disagree again. The project plan is real, and it's more than a Gantt chart or Scrum or Kanban board. The project plan is supported by a budget, real dollars to be spent on materials and resources, including your labor. Most of the time, the programmers (and business analysts, and database specialists, and systems analysts, and....) tend to look at me as adding value to the project. As someone who has worked with all those areas in the past, I have enough knowledge of those areas to be able to understand the scope of the project, the risks involved, and present those in somewhat non-technical terms to the business. You know, the business,.....those people that allocate a budget to IT (for BAU, Business As Usual activities), and to IT projects. I'm sure you don't want those business folks looking over your shoulder and asking what you're doing and when will you be done every couple of days, but those business folks want to know that the money they're spending is providing value to the business. Hence, the PM is (amongst other things), a liason or buffer between IT and the business.

In short, just because the PM can't write code as well as you, it doesn't mean that the PM isn't adding value. As with most vehicles on the road, your mileage may vary, and not all PMs are equal. It's possible you have a bad PM. But it's also possible that you have tunnel vision and aren't seeing the big picture.

==================================
adaptive uber info galaxies (bigger, better, faster, and more adept than agile innovative cognitive big data clouds)