Premier->CinemaCraft->DVDit 1

[GKonda]

Dear experts,

I think I have a general interest problem. Maybe you can give me advise or direct me to a guide somewhere on the net.

Here is my problem: I would like to transfer my old Hi8 clips to DVD. I have passed them through my DV camera and saved in DV format. For speed and quality reasons I would like to use the CinemaCraft standalone or the plugin in Premiere as MPEG encoder.

What I want to do is: autodetect scenes (or manually mark scenes in Premiere) -> combine/delete/edit scenes -> encode the whole movie with CinemeCraft -> create DVD menu -> create the complete MPEG movie (without reencoding the whole movie) -> burn the DVD

Is anybody who has done it?

Cheers
George

 

[WizyWyg]

hmm. I for one am not familiar with CinmemaCraft but what you are describing, no commercial made DVD software can do.

To auto-detect scenes? In many of the off-the-shelf, DVD authoring-programs you will have to designate your own scenes to do so.

Premiere is dodgy when it comes to encoding for Mpeg2 DVD stream to use in DVD authoring. I've played with every damn setting in the program and have yet to come out with a successful DVD Mpeg2 that could be recognized by an authoring program (I've used DVDit, Ulead DVD Movie Factory, Spruce Up, and Pinnacle ). To the point that I just gave up using premiere to make mpegs at all.

My steps are:

Premiere (edit, cut, join, render AVI )
Tsunami Mpeg Encoder ( avi to mpeg 2 encoder )
Ulead or DVDit (are my top choices so far ) to create the menus, and scene access.

Haven't failed a DVD yet.

 

[GKonda]

Thanks for the reply. I am using CinemaCraft plugin to premiere as this is a good quaility and very fast MPEG2 encoder. Up to this point it is the same as your process using TMPGenc. My problem is, that when I import the MPEG2 file to a DVD authoring program (such as the ones you have used)
(1) I do not succeed to separate the scenes for menu preparation;
(2) it seems to me, that the MPEG movie gets reconverted that means a long processing time, and loss of quality.

Which authoring program can recognize scenes from an MPEG2 file and encode only the created menu not the whole movie?

Cheers
George

 

[WizyWyg]

George,

I think you just lost me .

But, from what I am getting from your post, WHAT you want with off the shelf DVD authoring is not avaiable as of yet to the public ( it is however offered in many places that do dvd authoring, but those programs cost thousands of dollars).

The authoring programs that we use for us jo-consumers are only used to help you take your MPEG2 movie, from that movie, choose scenes you wish to act as access points (chapters etc) to make your menu, then take that menu and your mpeg2 movie and burn it.

The latter is not what you want , i take it.

 

[GKonda]

Dear WizyWig,

This is due to my poor English (I am Hungarian), + I tend to overcomplicate my questions.

I exactly want what you have said "you take your MPEG2 movie, from that movie, choose scenes you wish to act as access points (chapters etc) to make your menu, then take that menu and your mpeg2 movie and burn it".

I have created and converted my movie in Premiere using an MPEG plugin (CinemaCraft). I would like to get advise on the next steps: which software to use to separate scenes -> create menu -> burn without re-encoding (!) the movie itself. This last step is the problem, as most of the programs I know will reconvert the movie again that leads to excessive processing time and even to quality loss.

Cheers
George

 

[WizyWyg]

okay, then what you want to do is not possible with the current software that is released to the consumers.

What you want to do is actually not possible, and probably wont be for another couple of years.

All the current DVD authoring programs for joe-consumer/off the shelf will re-encode using their CODING software built into the DVD authoring program. There is no way to get around this.

WHAT you can do, is to encode your MPEG2 file at the highest Variable Bit-rate that the authoring software can handle and still detect as a "complied" DVD Mpeg2 file, so that way, you get the highest quality mpeg2 file to work with for the _re-encoding through the DVD authoring software.

However, as for scenes, each off=the-shelf dvd program has its own way of handling scenes, and you will have to read up on each to see how its done.

DVDit, you have to go through numerous steps to create scene access points, so as they say Read the Manual.

 

[GKonda]

Well, it is not a good news, but thanks a lot.
George

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

WizyWyg: All the current DVD authoring programs for joe-consumer/off the shelf will re-encode using their CODING software built into the DVD authoring program. There is no way to get around this.

Whaaa-aaa-aaat?

Then what the heck's the point of an MPEG plug-in for Premiere?

Geez, I always figured I just had some parameter set wonky, but... every one re-encodes...? Man, that is so... so... wrong!

WizyWyg, I'm going to start beating the bushes for more data on this (unless you can supply a link). Your advice is usually very good, but this one is just absolutely so weird that I've gotta verify it. If true, then you deserve a star for the amount of encoding (and re-encoding and re-encoding) time you're gonna save me in the future. I mean, it would be sucky to learn it's true, but that doesn't preclude my thanks for valuable data.

weird...

Cheers,


Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

Okay...

I found DVDlab at

http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/index.html

It allows you to build menus (including your own custom motion menus) and burn a hard-disk copy of a DVD as well as an actual physical DVD. It does not have a built-in encoder -- it expects you to have already prepared your DVD assets in accordance to spec. So, there is zero chance it'll try to re-encode your mpeg.

According to the FAQ at Ligos (this is just an excerpt -- see

http://www.ligos.com):

I’m trying to create a DVD with MPEG using a DVD-Video authoring product, but it won’t accept
your MPEG files. Why?

You must use the Sequence Header Options if you plan to use the MPEG clips in applications like Sonic Solutions DVDit!, Pinnacle/Minerva Impression, etc., or find that you are having trouble performing seek operations on playback. Sequence headers are also required, one before every GOP, if you intend to use your video for DVD-Video or related applications. Your DVD authoring package may also have special requirements such as separate video and audio streams, specific file name extensions (such as M2V for MPEG-2 video), and so on. Please check the documentation that came with your DVD application.

So.

This suggests, George, that your best interests will be served to make absolutely sure that your encoding is appropriate for your authoring/burning software. There are a crapload of settings, and it looks like you simply must be scrupulous. If your authoring software insists on re-encoding, then you must hammer the manufacturer of that software and make them tell you what kind of assets you must produce to avoid this.

When I get home, I'm going to check out DVDlab (there is a trial version available), because it seems to be absolutely perfect for the kind of wankiness I want (and if I'm not sure, I can download the manual, which is online). I will experiment with a short movie -- about 7 minutes long.

I will report back later.

Cheers,


Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[WizyWyg]

I wish that DVDit didn't buy out Spruce Up ( I still have it, and will never part with it)

It is by far the BEST home version of dvd authoring ever made, no reencoding at all. Made great menus, and the "last" feature they were going to implement before being bought out was the ability to add "movie" menus and sounds to menus.

Oh well. I still think its the best so far.

 

[GKonda]

Edward,
Thanks a lot. I will download and try the DVDlab. I hope I can find the exact definitition of the MPEG2 for the DVDlab.
George

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

Hi, your Reporter on the Street, back with the skinny.

I use Premiere 5.1c because I'm old. I have the Ligos MPEG plug-in. I exported four short movies using the plug-in. For settings, I chose from their list of presets: DVD Asset (NTSC).

Then I ran the trial version of DVDLab

http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/

I followed the three page getting-started tutorial.

It worked like a charm.

I mean, this is so easy, I'm astonished. It accepted the files without a single quibble. I built a little menu quick, noodled on the design for a few minutes until I was happy (including adding my own music background), made a disk image, then "burned" the files to the hard drive. The "burn" took about five minutes (total of about 15 minutes of movies).

Then I stuck a blank, unformatted DVD-R into my drive and told DVDLab to burn the disk from the hard drive. Twenty minutes later, I took the disk downstairs and spun that baby on my console DVD player.

Perfect! And I didn't have to re-encode nuttin'!

Looks like it'll allow movie menus, multiple levels of menus, "bonus" material (the sort of DVD that also has computer-level stuff, such as little websites, etc.), strings of connected movies, etc.

I'm diggin' on this.

Cheers,


Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[WizyWyg]

Edward, Im gonna have ta check that program out ^_^. Im getting tired of Ulead, so im looking for alternatives....t

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

Please do and let us know how it compares. I've been so frustrated trying to get all this DVD crap working over the past year and getting it all coming together so quickly last night was just awesome!

And seeing the DVD on the TV screen downstairs was, wel suh-weet.

I'm gonna sign myself up for the license and ream all that old buggy crap off my system tonight!

Yay!

My Producer says that she just wants to see sequential MPEGs play seamlessly on the console DVD player and she'll be happy, too.

Cheers,


Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[KSHINE]

I haven't read all the comments, but from my own experience i could advice You the steps next:

1. Video Editing ( PREMIERE 6.x )

a) use it only for editing (no capture, no Mpeg2 conversion, except if plugin cinemacraft )

b) if on the original AVi file ( or premiere timeline), you have some bad image (interlace) ou flicker, use option from premiere to export the file AVI to a new FILE AVI, Deinterlacing it, and also use this:
Video Option : field option, Flicker REMOVAL )

for best quality results before using an Encoder

2. Use Cinemacraft ( for me, the best home user encoder) with option DVD ! and at least 2 passes and VBR (at least medium 3M)


4. Use DVD MAESTRO ( from spruce ) for DVD AUTHORING ( also for me the best one. This do not reencode, is simple and very powerful) and use internal manipulation for creation of chapters and menus, and stuff like this ,

5. Burn the DVD image with ?! (there is a lot of them outthere... )


P.S. DVDMAestro is really very good, however for stuff like , transtions, 3D, and so on this is not the program to choose. Instead use others utilities, like photoshop, Premiere, .... also be aware about sound for DVDMaestro, because DVDMaestro is very enforcing about DVD Stabndards

Use DVDMestro when you have the video and audio ready


Hope this helps


K, ....

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

Ah George,

I re-read your original request. I have great luck using the updated MPEG plug-in for Premiere 6.5 to create my big single MPEG elementary streams (encoded a 100-minute movie last night in 180 minutes!). DVDLab allows me to put as many chapter points as I want in it and burns the disk for me, too.

This has just proven to be a real simple winning combination for me.

In case you're interested.

Cheers,


Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[GEAK]

I just had to toss in my 2 cents here... A while back WizyWyg indicated that all consumer authoring apps will re-encode MPEGs. This isn't entirely true. I've been using Ulead's DVD Workshop and it has an option in the final render stage: "Don't convert compliant files."

I've been doing pretty much the same as he has indicated:
1. Use Premiere 6.5 to edit and output as AVI.
2. Use Tsunami MPEG Encoder to convert to MPG.
3. Use DVD Workshop to render DVD files/folders to my HD.
4. Use Pioneer's RecordNow software to burn the files to disk.

Using the "Don't convert" option, the DVD files & folders are ready in about 30-45 minutes (most of the time is used to render animated menus). With that option unchecked it typically takes 2 hours to generate the files/folders.

BTW, if I use Premiere's encoder or the bbMPEG plug-in to encode MPEGs then DVDWS will re-encode the video regardless of my choice. Also, I earlier tried using DVDIt for step 3 but I only managed to successfully produce 2 disks that way (out of countless attempts). Inevitably I'd get an error message telling me the process had failed but no reason was given so I didn't know what to do to fix it.

I've never had a failed burn with DVDWS and I'm almost finished my third spindle of (50) disks.

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

BTW, if I use Premiere's encoder or the bbMPEG plug-in to encode MPEGs then DVDWS will re-encode the video regardless of my choice.

Well, that's annoying.

Right after WizyWyg's assertion, pretty much the entire rest of this string involved tools that wouldn't (in my case by design) re-encode files.

It was free to update my Premiere mpeg plug-in to v1.3, which means I render a 100-minute animated movie in about three hours and the file size is pretty tight and the quality is quite nice. I've read a variety of reviews and when I take out the extremes "blah-blah encoder is sheeeeeeet and blah-blah encoder is da bomb!" the Cinemacraft plug-in, when fully updated, produces very nice files. My only beef with it (and it's a small beef) is that it kicks out WAV files for sound, instead of some other compressed format, such as ac3 or mp2. Considering the price (no extra cost if you have Premiere 6.5), this is not so bad! I used to use the Ligos encoder, but its video files were larger than Premiere's, with no observable improvement.

DVDLab does the rest for me. Multiple level menus, motion menus, background music, multiple movies, multiple audio tracks, whatever. Before I ever tried it, I read through the instruction book. Awesome stuff. Then, I downloaded the trial version, which has a 30-day lifespan. After my second successful burn, I invested the very-reasonable sum of eighty bucks for a license and I've been just whacky-happy since.

Cheers,


Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[GKonda]

This is what I did finally. Bought the DVDlab that is a perfect solution for me. It does not reencode, and has all the features I need to make my DVDs. Thanks for all your help guys here.

Cheers
George

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

Yay, another Happy Ending!

Cheers,


Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door