My company is just getting verified through Avaya to Sell the IP Office and below systems. What are some of your opinion's on it? I am a certified NEC technician that wen't to work for another company. Any imput would be greatly appreciate. (problems, quirks, works solid ,piece of junk, etc.)
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations Rhinorhino on being selected by the Tek-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
Opinions?
- Thread starter dontworx
- Start date
crashtest1000
Vendor
It’s all about applications take the NEC hat off and leave it in the car.
![[cheers]](/data/assets/smilies/cheers.gif "[cheers] [cheers]")
I find it a reasonably solid piece of equipment with very few hardware failures
V2.1 is currently a dog & should be avoided if possible
Programming is simple, deceptivly simple as a lot of functionality that is not obvious can be achieved with "sneaky" programming & there are a few "Gotchas" that can catch out an inexperienced programmer.
V2.1 is currently a dog & should be avoided if possible
Programming is simple, deceptivly simple as a lot of functionality that is not obvious can be achieved with "sneaky" programming & there are a few "Gotchas" that can catch out an inexperienced programmer.
stuzzy
Technical User
- Mar 24, 2004
- 49
It's crap. Sorry to be so blunt, but it is. It can't hold a candle to Avaya's other PBX products as far as stability, documentation, and overall support from Avaya are concerned.
The new software releases they come out with often introduce more bugs than they fix, creating a "wait and see" atmosphere in regards to upgrading. This goes for both the voicemail and IP Office firmware. I put in one of these when it first came and it was total crap, IP phones didn't even work on the first release. In the end it cost us a high profile client because we could not get the system to perform as expected. It's getting better all of the time but still, I expect better from Avaya having worked on all of their PBX's over the years, and knowing what quality and reliability usually comes out of it.
Reporting software is a joke. It's often cryptic and what little documentation you get is not very helpful. As a a matter of fact, the level of documentation for the whole product line is pretty lacking. Compared with the documentation for other Avaya systems, I can only scratch my head and wonder. Often times on an install I would have to perform tests to see how features work so I could write my own training documentation for the customer because none existed that I deemd good enough. Tech support, at the beginning, was crap also, but has steadily gotten better, though not by much in my book.
I used to put these in, and secretly I thought they were crap but I toed the Avaya line and did my best to make the customer happy, and publicly put faith into this product. Now I maintain an IP Office in an IT Manager position so I have been on both sides of this product.
Avaya bought the IP Office and slapped it's name on it. It doesn't meet the quality of their other sytems yet. It just isn't. The fact that this forum exists is testament to this. Is there a Magix forum? Partner? Definity? No. It isn't needed. Avaya supports all of those products very well tech support-wise and documentation-wise.
I know I am being harsh, but now I have the owner of my company breathing down my neck for results on a system which is halfa**. It is very frustrating. I am no longer the tech who can just "fix and leave", I now have to live with the system. I am just holding my breath and waiting for our company to get big enough to move to an enterprise system.
I will say this. If you are putting it in for a small company with relatively few needs, this system will probably do fine. However, the more applications you try to employ, the more features you try to use, the more problems you run into.
I imagine everyone's gonna pile on me now, but that's my unvarnished opinion, and I have put in 20+ of these, and am currently maintaining one.
The new software releases they come out with often introduce more bugs than they fix, creating a "wait and see" atmosphere in regards to upgrading. This goes for both the voicemail and IP Office firmware. I put in one of these when it first came and it was total crap, IP phones didn't even work on the first release. In the end it cost us a high profile client because we could not get the system to perform as expected. It's getting better all of the time but still, I expect better from Avaya having worked on all of their PBX's over the years, and knowing what quality and reliability usually comes out of it.
Reporting software is a joke. It's often cryptic and what little documentation you get is not very helpful. As a a matter of fact, the level of documentation for the whole product line is pretty lacking. Compared with the documentation for other Avaya systems, I can only scratch my head and wonder. Often times on an install I would have to perform tests to see how features work so I could write my own training documentation for the customer because none existed that I deemd good enough. Tech support, at the beginning, was crap also, but has steadily gotten better, though not by much in my book.
I used to put these in, and secretly I thought they were crap but I toed the Avaya line and did my best to make the customer happy, and publicly put faith into this product. Now I maintain an IP Office in an IT Manager position so I have been on both sides of this product.
Avaya bought the IP Office and slapped it's name on it. It doesn't meet the quality of their other sytems yet. It just isn't. The fact that this forum exists is testament to this. Is there a Magix forum? Partner? Definity? No. It isn't needed. Avaya supports all of those products very well tech support-wise and documentation-wise.
I know I am being harsh, but now I have the owner of my company breathing down my neck for results on a system which is halfa**. It is very frustrating. I am no longer the tech who can just "fix and leave", I now have to live with the system. I am just holding my breath and waiting for our company to get big enough to move to an enterprise system.
I will say this. If you are putting it in for a small company with relatively few needs, this system will probably do fine. However, the more applications you try to employ, the more features you try to use, the more problems you run into.
I imagine everyone's gonna pile on me now, but that's my unvarnished opinion, and I have put in 20+ of these, and am currently maintaining one.
stuzzy,
>The fact that this forum exists is testament to this. Is >there a Magix forum? Partner? Definity? No. It isn't needed. >Avaya supports all of those products very well tech >support-wise and documentation-wise.
by the way, there are forums here for magix, partner and definity.
take a look, definity one is pretty interesting.
>The fact that this forum exists is testament to this. Is >there a Magix forum? Partner? Definity? No. It isn't needed. >Avaya supports all of those products very well tech >support-wise and documentation-wise.
by the way, there are forums here for magix, partner and definity.
take a look, definity one is pretty interesting.- Thread starter
- #6
intrigrant
Systems Engineer
Hey dwalin, why take a look at the nonexisting Magix, Partner or Definity forums.
They are not there nor needed as you say?
I think Avaya IP Office is well documented but not always as stable as you might expect, mostly due to the decisions made by the faboulous "enterprise" guys of Avaya.
Who in this forum took courses anyway? Who is ACA on IPO in this forum? Or even PA?
Invest in knowledge, both in IP Office and in IP an PC related stuff, it will payback!
They are not there nor needed as you say?
I think Avaya IP Office is well documented but not always as stable as you might expect, mostly due to the decisions made by the faboulous "enterprise" guys of Avaya.
Who in this forum took courses anyway? Who is ACA on IPO in this forum? Or even PA?
Invest in knowledge, both in IP Office and in IP an PC related stuff, it will payback!
Intrigant,
I took the courses, I'm ACA on IPO and PA and various other certifications and I completely understand Stuzzy.
ALL, and I really mean ALL, IPO courses are waste of time and money. Most of the time the students know better the product than the Avaya trainers themselves. Not even to mention the assessments...
The IPO documentation is really very poor. If you want to understand the system the best thing you can do is take the Network Alchemy documentation.
Every new version of firmware contains more bugs than the previous ones. I'm glad someone finally decided to delay 3.0 until they have a firmware that is somewhat stable.
One of the major problems is that there is a lack of managment and vision with Avaya SMBS.
I took the courses, I'm ACA on IPO and PA and various other certifications and I completely understand Stuzzy.
ALL, and I really mean ALL, IPO courses are waste of time and money. Most of the time the students know better the product than the Avaya trainers themselves. Not even to mention the assessments...
The IPO documentation is really very poor. If you want to understand the system the best thing you can do is take the Network Alchemy documentation.
Every new version of firmware contains more bugs than the previous ones. I'm glad someone finally decided to delay 3.0 until they have a firmware that is somewhat stable.
One of the major problems is that there is a lack of managment and vision with Avaya SMBS.
IPO is not a bad system if the installer understands how it works. V2.1 asside most problem sites I have encountered have been due to poor configuration.
I have an Avaya AVA Qualification, scored 85% in 10 minutes with no info on exam content except for 1 sample paper. Conclusion ACA is a waste of space (& why was the european exam asking questions related to North America?)
Training, current official training in the uk is poor
I have given engineers in house training in 3 days that has been more usefull than a full 5 day Avaya Course.
Generaly I like the platform It is simple & flexible and can achieve spectacular results in competent hands.
I have an Avaya AVA Qualification, scored 85% in 10 minutes with no info on exam content except for 1 sample paper. Conclusion ACA is a waste of space (& why was the european exam asking questions related to North America?)
Training, current official training in the uk is poor
I have given engineers in house training in 3 days that has been more usefull than a full 5 day Avaya Course.
Generaly I like the platform It is simple & flexible and can achieve spectacular results in competent hands.
intrigrant
Systems Engineer
As you do IPGuru, i also give in-house training in NL and i agree with you, IPO isn't bad at all, altough 2.1 is a bit of a problem sometimes ( not all customers have problems ).
Taking courses from Avaya is a big problem in NL, either go to the UK or Budapest. Since the economy gone down its far to expensive for resellers to send engineers abroad for taking a course, so they don't and learn by trial and error.
Gives me loads of work ( distributor ) and the IPO gets a bad name!
Its that ACA is necessery to accredit Avaya Gold Member, otherwise i would not consider to do it.
Taking courses from Avaya is a big problem in NL, either go to the UK or Budapest. Since the economy gone down its far to expensive for resellers to send engineers abroad for taking a course, so they don't and learn by trial and error.
Gives me loads of work ( distributor ) and the IPO gets a bad name!
Its that ACA is necessery to accredit Avaya Gold Member, otherwise i would not consider to do it.
Spanning
Technical User
- Aug 6, 2003
- 165
What a load of C##p,
What is a bad config, a default one or one which is fudged to make unsupported features to work , i agree the 2.1 version needs to be revised.The Avaya guys will soon provide a maint release.
i got my ACA 96 % less than 10 min and my ACS has just come through.
As for training we are 100% satisfied with Avaya.
What is a bad config, a default one or one which is fudged to make unsupported features to work , i agree the 2.1 version needs to be revised.The Avaya guys will soon provide a maint release.
i got my ACA 96 % less than 10 min and my ACS has just come through.
As for training we are 100% satisfied with Avaya.
- Thread starter
- #13
So my next Question has anyone done anything with any of Avaya'a web apps on the IP office. Like web callback etc. Does it even work. If I have to deal with this product any advice I would appreciate. Or would it be better to look somewhere else before we get frustrated with empty promises. Or on the other hand maybe some people have had hardly any problems especially with advanced applications.
Spanning
Technical User
- Aug 6, 2003
- 165
The applications do work perfectly well almost, provided there are no network restrictions , no firewalls. Once this everything is up and running then make required changes to protect your network. XP sp2 is microsofts brickwall needs to be in most case disabled.
Spanning,
According to the IPO Wizard the default config is indeed bad...
The problem is not the numbers of revisions of software but the fact that they release crap software and there is no good testing. I expect more stability from a product that exists a couple years.
According to the IPO Wizard the default config is indeed bad...
The problem is not the numbers of revisions of software but the fact that they release crap software and there is no good testing. I expect more stability from a product that exists a couple years.
intrigant,
_i_ didn't say definity and other forums was not needed. i can just shrug at the idea of "if the product is good and well documented, there is no need for forums". it's not true. considering the complexity of modern ip-based pbx alone with all side matters and considerations, it's fairly true to say that forums are _absolutely_ needed.
ipo is not well documented, and i agree with this. though let's be patient, it's clear enough that avaya guys are trying hard to develop ipo up to the level of enterprise solutions, and this race is causing troubles with untested features and poor docs. and by the way, "enterprise" guys don't make any decisions on the ipo, it's completely separate department. all decisions are made within smbs.
well, i took ava00140h00 a year and a half ago. and i'm aca on ipo, pa and acs on both ipo install and ipo maintain. not mentioning ace. so what?
_i_ didn't say definity and other forums was not needed.
i can just shrug at the idea of "if the product is good and well documented, there is no need for forums". it's not true. considering the complexity of modern ip-based pbx alone with all side matters and considerations, it's fairly true to say that forums are _absolutely_ needed. ipo is not well documented, and i agree with this. though let's be patient, it's clear enough that avaya guys are trying hard to develop ipo up to the level of enterprise solutions, and this race is causing troubles with untested features and poor docs. and by the way, "enterprise" guys don't make any decisions on the ipo, it's completely separate department. all decisions are made within smbs.
well, i took ava00140h00 a year and a half ago. and i'm aca on ipo, pa and acs on both ipo install and ipo maintain. not mentioning ace. so what?
Welcome to the cutting edge of convergence, folks. To get the really advanced stuff to work right, you need expertise in not only telephony, but active directory, exchange, domains, IP routing, firewalls, VPN's, etc. etc. etc.
Personally I totally love IPO, in spite of yelling the occasional curse at a poor cute looking white box with jacks on the front of it
As IPGuru mentioned, in the hands of a skilled tech who is willing and able to think outside the box, experiment, and TEST his solutions - it can do a heck of a lot of things that you would be hard pressed to accomplish on other platforms.
You could ignore IPO for a year or two, and by then it should be more stable and better documented, but you will be a newbie while those who take their lumps to understand it well now will be running circles around you
Peter
Personally I totally love IPO, in spite of yelling the occasional curse at a poor cute looking white box with jacks on the front of it
As IPGuru mentioned, in the hands of a skilled tech who is willing and able to think outside the box, experiment, and TEST his solutions - it can do a heck of a lot of things that you would be hard pressed to accomplish on other platforms.
You could ignore IPO for a year or two, and by then it should be more stable and better documented, but you will be a newbie while those who take their lumps to understand it well now will be running circles around you
Peter
Spanning
Technical User
- Aug 6, 2003
- 165
VOiDUDE
Yes , the wizard has some minor hickups, since i experiment i have found only three faults.
1. T1 settings
2. RAS
3. Locale
Once you adjust the above its fine and quick.
as Morrack mentions well as i understand it no point in condem it.The IPO is well advanced as for the other SBS platform even with the current 2.1 oversights they are well short being complete.For instance look at the BCM can not network, Voip is terrible and this is from experince we just replaced one with an IPO.
Yes , the wizard has some minor hickups, since i experiment i have found only three faults.
1. T1 settings
2. RAS
3. Locale
Once you adjust the above its fine and quick.
as Morrack mentions well as i understand it no point in condem it.The IPO is well advanced as for the other SBS platform even with the current 2.1 oversights they are well short being complete.For instance look at the BCM can not network, Voip is terrible and this is from experince we just replaced one with an IPO.
- Status