Making Microsoft Certification Legit- Here is my suggestion

[MMB]

Here are some suggestions on how to change the Microsoft certification process to make it legit.

In general, this entire process should be cost the candidate a one-time charge for all the phases with the exception of the registration fee, which should be high, to weed out people who think they have only a slight chance of becoming a candidate.

Phase 1: Selection - Each person desiring to become a MCSE candidate must first submit a resume complete with references. This resume should be reviewed and references checked for verifiable IT industry experience and especially experience with Microsoft products.

Phase 2: Training - After a person is selected they become an MCSE candidate they become a member of a small group (this group becomes a support group). They are than provided training materials which cover the topics Microsoft feels are necessary to understand. This training can have the use of hands-on workshops, product evaluations and or simulations. An MCSE candidate is assigned a person whose serves as a trainer (guide) who they can call or email for clarification on topics if they need help in an area. The candidate can also discuss these issues with members of the group that he/she is in.

Phase 3: Discussion - Online discussions can be setup to discuss the varies topics. The trainer (guide) can pose various issues/problems for the group to discuss. This encourages thought and discussion.

*This would end the self-study phases.

*In the following phases the candidate would be required to meet with the group and the trainer physically in a training location for a week.

Phase 4: Troubleshooting and projects: The candiates are required to work through various (real life on a real network) problems and assignments to demonstrate their knowledge. This can include all kinds of issues from setting up printers, setting up users, installing workstations, etc. This activity is supervised by a group of trainers who evaluate the candidates.

Phase 5: Exit Interview and Testing: On the last day, the candidate is given an exit interview where a trainer(s) can quiz them in various topics or even have them perform tasks.

After successful completion of all the phases the candidate has earned the title of MCSE or whatever you want to call it.

 

[Guest_imported]

My $0.02 worth:
I think that this is a VERY good idea. This would also give the candidate confidence in getting that "Dream job" & keeping it. I have had instructors that have suggested similar ideas. One such idea is having a "Tech-Mentor" so that the candidate can be an "apprentice" & learn from the Mentor. The candidate would need to be an "apprentice" or whatever you want to call, it for a set amount of time & then the candidate must pass a "Journeymans-like" test, observed & given by a tech-mentor. These tests would be real-world like senarios, such as Network setup, troubleshooting, setting up group IDs & User IDs, etc. Then the candidate can verify & prove the experience gained, to prospective employers.

 

[butchrecon]

I agree with founder1. An apprentiship program in the IT indistry Would weed out those who cant hang. Electricians use this program, why not computers. Learning from someone who already knows how to do things is an excellent way to learn. Please let us (Tek-tips members) know if the solutions we provide are helpful to you. Not only do they help you but they may help others.


James Collins
Computer Hardware Engineer
A+, MCP

email: butchrecon@skyenet.net

 

[hchman]

MMB. No offense but you sound like you really want to keep the process of even getting a chance to become MCSE certified exclusive. Not everyone has the time and money to do what you suggest. I myself have been in the IS field for 8 years. I have 2 kids in college and am going to college myself to get my masters. When I test for my certification I am not applying for a job. Why would I want to give someone from Microsoft my resume? I do not have time to meet with a group and a trainer or anyone else to become ceritfied. I do agree that a person should have to prove they deserve the certificate but give me a break!!

Just my opinion.

 

[Zelandakh]

I'm also averse to it, from the same standpoint as hchman. Those coming into IT maybe should apprentise, but what of us who are already in using real world knowledge to a much better endpoint than wet behind the ears MCSEs with no commercial experience?

How do you plan to allow us into your MCSE world?

 

[hchman]

Basically I understand the need to have qualified people certified but I also know that there are plenty of people that are trying to better themselves and this is just one step to do that. In order to get Microsoft cert the way MMB suggests I would almost have to go part time on my current job to "apprenticeship" with someone. Also, I'm sure Microsoft could compile a nice little data base with the information from peoples resumes. I can see it now. Someone from Microsoft calls my current employer and says "Hi, I have a resume from Mr. Doe. Can you tell me what he does for you?" I may have some explaining to do in order to convince my employer that it is not another employer calling to check me out. Last but not least. If we are that concerned about Microsoft certs being given to qualified individuals then Microsoft probably should re-certify everyone and not just new candidates.

 

[MMB]

The way I am proposing to change the MCSE certification process is similiar to how a Graduate level course I had was structured.

There needs to be some sort of admission policy for MCSE candidates. That is why I am proposing the Resume requirement. The program should be selective.

I feel that to pass a Microsoft tests is too easy and proves nothing.

 

[butchrecon]

Yes passing the MS tests are easy. But submitting a resume for admissions is not the answer. Founder1 had a good point. Make it an apprentice program. When your apprentice is completed then you can take all the certification tests you can pass. An apprentice program will give candidates the hands on experience and knowledge needed to be effective in the IT world. PLUS it would do away with the so called boot camp style learning. I feel the IT industry will get more qualified techs. The certifications would mean more and it would weed out those who cant hang. James Collins
Systems Support Engineer
A+, MCP

email: butchrecon@skyenet.net

Please let us (Tek-tips members) know if the solutions we provide are helpful to you. Not only do they help you but they may help others.

 

[hchman]

I do appreciate your point of view but I still diagree. Who would make the decision on who gets in and who doesn't? Personally I am preparing to take my A+ cert test and I can tell you that it is not easy. I have reseached the test and as of August 2001 they are changing the test type. You have to know your stuff. MCSE is my next step and I do not want to be on a waiting list forever. I think Microsoft would be opening itself up to a lot of trouble if they start denying people access to take the test (descrimination suits). Microsoft testing facilities would also be hurt because fewer people would be testing. Bottom line is a Microsoft cert is good to have but it is not worth all of the trouble. A good education and experience beats a certification any day. I think employers are beginning to realize this and it is one reason people are saying that certifications are too easy and do not mean as much as they used to.

PS Good talking with you.

 

[butchrecon]

There are many employers who don't care how many certifications you have or how much education you have as long as you know what you are doing. I think with an apprentice program should be open to all. Then as a few months go by those who cannot stay up to speed get weeded out. Its like that in the electrician apprentice program. I am not saying anyone should be denied. All should be given the opportunity. Those who cant stay up to speed then have to start over or find another career. You are doing the right thing taking the A+ regardless if its going adaptive or not. It going adaptive just means you really need to understand the concepts and not just spit out a possible answer. I took the A+ in 1999 and missed only a couple questions over all. I KNOW that I did not know everything. I guessed at some of the questions just by remembering what I had read and used deduction. No big deal. Did I deserve the score, NO. But I don't care, I passed. That is all that really matters. There are those here who say the MCSE is loosing its appeal (like me sometimes). Maybe so. But it is still worth something in the IT world. So what that more people are getting certified. It will still boil down to 1 thing in the end. EXPERIENCE! James Collins
Systems Support Engineer
A+, MCP

email: butchrecon@skyenet.net

Please let us (Tek-tips members) know if the solutions we provide are helpful to you. Not only do they help you but they may help others.

 

[MMB]

I would assume it is to Microsoft's benefit to have "everybody" Microsoft certified, because Microsoft and its partners will profit. Just like Microsoft wants Windows on everybodys desktop, they are also trying to develop certification programs for everybody, so that every user will not have an excuse to be certified in some area.

Certification is just another product in the Microsoft product line.

Thanks.