Linux Migration Estimate Please

[Rinnt]

Hello,

Would any of think it's possible to move a 40 user Microsoft Windows Terminal Server network to Linux by the end of July (only one terminal server and one email server)? I am considering this, but have no idea where to start... Also, how does the whole compatibilty issue work? Must every Windows application be ported over to Linux, and is this even possible? Is there a distributer I should contact such as Red Hat? Do you suggest any other distrobutions (must be free - assuming all linux is...)? Thank you for your suggestions...

 

[jpmitchell]

Have you thought about using Samba

 

[hasrin]

You can find most of your answer about migration to linux here

http://www.redhat.com/solutions/migration/

.. especially redhat

 

[Rinnt]

jpmitchell: Althogh it may not be relistic, the goal is to remain a homogeneous evnironment... However, I do appreciate it and will keep samba in mind.

hasrin: Thanks for the link. I'll check it out...

Would you all agree that Red hat is by far the most popular Linux distrobustion? I know I've heard that it's used by many corporations...

 

[rycamor]

OK, let's just sloow

http://www down

a minute here.

Migrate what? The workstations or the software? Or both? And what do you mean by (only one terminal server and one email server)? Do you mean that the workstations will continue to be Windows, but you want Linux to take the place of a terminal server?

(Note: Samba has nothing to do with this)

There is no way anyone can give you a good estimate without an accurate description of the software involved, and what purpose the system will serve.

If you are just using generic office software, such as Word and Excel, then this is a possibility (see

http://www.openoffice.org).

If your main office software happens to be a web-based suite, then this will be even easier. But, if you have any customized software for Windows, then this will take some more thought.

Basically, though, there is no simple way to just "replace" a Windows terminal server with a Linux server. Terminal server does some very specific things that are much more complex than just emulating the Windows API (such as the Wine project:

http://www.winehq.com)

So unless you are willing to take a step back and completely evaluate all the company's software, I would say it's probably not a good idea. And even if you can make the move, I doubt it would happen smoothly within 4 months. -------------------------------------------

"Calculus is just the meaningless manipulation of higher symbols"
                          -unknown F student

 

[Rinnt]

rycamor,

I believe there has been a misunderstanding... When I said terminal server I ment Terminal Server. When you are using Terminal Server, you do not replace any software on the "workstations" for they are all thin clients (no hard drives) and rely totally on the server. Yes, I am interested in migrating the Termainal Server and perhaps the Exchange server as well.

I would assuming that anyone migrating their OS would migrate their software as well. Running Windows software on Linux isn't impossible but it certainly isn't advisable in an organization. I've heard of companies porting over their windows applications code to the Linux environment... This has my curiosity.

As most other organizations, we do not use just generic software. There are unfortunately some 16 bit DOS apps around, but they should be moved to a Windows enviornment soon...

To recap the major concerns are:

Custom Software - Can it be ported to the Linux Enviornment

User Interface - User are use to running Windwos NT on their thin client connections. Would they be required to adapt to KDE or GNOME?

I understand how crazy this whole idea is, but I know some businesses have done it. As a gov organization, technology budgets are extreamly limited. I hope I've cleared a few misunderstanding...

What do you all think?

 

[ifincham]

Hi,

You could say that MTS (or citrix) is just the M$ equivalent of X which has existed in the unix world for years. It is perfectly possible to run remote X desktops from a linux server in a conceptually similar way to which these 'thin-clients' work. For info on the Linux Terminal Server project see -->

http://www.ltsp.org/index.php

. For XDMCP in its own right see

http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/XDMCP-HOWTO/

. I don't know how the required hardware spec compares to MTS though for the same number of users.

However, as always the key thing is the application s/w. You would have to have a gnome / kde desktop and, although it would be feasible to run M$ apps under the wine emulation libraries (

http://www.winehq.com

and

http://www.codeweavers.com/technology/wine/),

I'm not sure how that would perform with 40 remote X users. Otherwise, you would be running native linux apps like staroffice or the equivalent stuff in Gnome & KDE.

On the porting - as long as you have the source then almost anything can ultimately be ported. Some stuff may be quite easy, especially if its written in C. But it all depends on what those apps do and what language they have been written in, what apis they use, etc. The more difficult areas to convert would be the gui stuff and proprietary data storage (e.g. using VB code that reads/writes to a M$/access mdb via the jet api). However, there will always be functionally similar replacements. You may also have problems if the users make extensive use of 'macros' (sic) or VBA - although even here staroffice/openoffice does have a syntactically similar 'StarBasic'.

http://api.openoffice.org/servlets/ProjectDocumentList

I guess you can only try it out on a test basis and see how far you get. One of the major issues will most likely be change resistance in the users ...

Regards

 

[rycamor]

I understand what Terminal Server is. What I was trying to understand was whether you wanted the thin clients to also be Linux, or to remain Windows, and whether you wanted to run Windows software on the Linux server, or run Linux software.

Each of the above is theoretically possible, but each has its drawbacks. Yes, Linux and Unix servers have been serving "thin client" or diskless workstations long before Windows ever began Terminal Server. In the case of the city of Largo, Florida (

http://dot.kde.org/995949998/),

it was found that a thin-client Linux solution was able to serve 4 times as many client stations as a comparable Terminal Server.

The problem is not about what is theoretically possible, but what is feasible, given the short time that you have. If you must have these custom DOS and Windows apps, then you might run into problems, because I can just about guarantee that these can't just be "ported" over to Linux in 4 months.

However, if these applications are fairly simple, and use the standard DOS and Windows APIs, then it might not be too much trouble to get them to run in Windows emulation mode (Wine). You can test this anytime, buy installing a copy of Linux an any computer and trying to run these applications under Wine. If you are in any doubt about the stability of Windows applications running in Linux, just check out

http://www.codeweavers.com/,

where you can browse a database showing Windows software that has been tested with Wine. (and Linux has had several DOS emulation libraries for years, such as 'dosemu').

The good thing about doing things this way is that you only need windows compatibility on one machine: the server. All the thin clients can just run standard Linux, and log into their desktops on the server, just the way Terminal Server does. If you have absolutely no experience with Linux, though, I recommend you find someone to help you plan this move. Linux as a desktop is fine for beginners, but Linux as a server requires some knowledge. -------------------------------------------

"Calculus is just the meaningless manipulation of higher symbols"
                          -unknown F student