Laptop freezing & other problems

[wolluf]

Customer's laptop. Found one issue - windows is reporting bad block on hard drive, which commonly causes freezing. But there are other issues too - like it won't turn off (have to disconnect power supply & battery). The keyboard stops working (I tried a fresh install onto another hard drive. Sometimes it freezes on regional info, sometimes gets to allow input of key - but can't type (mouse still working). Also with original HD - one of users has password - allows you to type one letter, but no more. However, it appears to work normally in all respects in Safe Mode! I've run a memtest - all good. My thinking is its a mobo issue (as well as hard drive) - though the normal safe mode is odd. Its generating quite a lot of heat - but I don't think excessive (there's no cpu temperature monitor - just HD, which is running at 30C).

Any ideas welcomed!

btw - its an Acer Aspire 5000, Amd Turin processor, 512MB RAM (64 shared graphics), 80 GB HD, XP Home, about 15 months old.

 

[xit]

If everything works well in safe mode, I would have to say it is a driver causing a conflict, because not all drivers are loaded in safe mode. I would try updating drivers if possible.

xit

 

[cdogg]

Yeah, those can be a pain in the a** trying to figure out. Your least expensive option is probably to get your hands on another hard drive and load a fresh copy of Windows. If everything runs fine for a long period of time, then you can be pretty certain it's not a hardware issue.

You should be able to grab a used 40GB drive for under $20 on eBay.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Einstein
[tab][navy]For posting policies, click [/navy]here.

 

[wolluf]

As I mentioned - I've already tried installing fresh copy on another hard drive. The process fails at various points - either freezes at the regional settings screen - or the keyboard becomes non-operative when you need to type in the key. Also tried another approach - cloned original to second drive, and started upgrade in there. This freezes at various points in the install process! (with 32 minutes left, with 10 minutes left....).I used a USB keyboard and mouse to start the upgrade process (yes USB keyboard works when laptop keyboard doesn't)

So this is why confused - can't install fresh copy, but it works in safe mode! One suggests driver problem - the other a hardware problem. It obviously isn't just the keyboard & pad or the fresh install with USB mouse & keyboard would work.

 

[BadBigBen]

Sounds like some fluid might have gotten onto the mainboard... maybe shorting out the keyboard, which can cause all sorts of havoc...

only real way of finding this out though, is to take it apart and look at the mainboard...

jmo

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[aich69]

Have you checked out the fan/heatsink area?
I have a Toshiba laptop that was doing similar things to your customers machine, on top of that it would just turn off without warning and the battery would fail to charge...

All sorted once I had removed the carpet that was laying between the two fans and the heatsink!

(unfortunately that was after I had bought a new keyboard and battery!!)

Might be worth a check as the errors I was getting didin't make me think overheating staight away. It was only when iused it outside the air con'd server room that I realised it was a heat issue.

Cpt. Red Bull

 

[wolluf]

But it all works in Safe Mode! So presumably keyboard/pad not shorted out, machine not overheating.

 

[wahnula]

Are there any mouse/keyboard utilities/drivers installed? Logitech, MS Intellimouse, etc.

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[wolluf]

Just the usual laptop ones - but the point is there is a problem with keyboard/mouse/freezing while installing fresh on another hard drive (ie, during the install process). This generally means a hardware issue. But said devices work perfectly well (as does the whole installation) in safe mode with current installation (this doesn't make sense to me, given the inability to clean install). As I've not yet managed to get either a clean or upgrade install to complete, I can't tell if they'd work then! (and even if an install does finish, I'd never trust it!)

Have told customer motherboard is probably dying (as well as damaged hard drive) - and they're considering what they want to do.

 

[cdogg]

wolluf,
My bad. I missed that part in your first post.

The problem here is that the system works fine in safe mode but doesn't during a clean install. That is strange, because both environments are very similar. During a clean install, Windows Setup is using the same basic safe-mode drivers.

That would lead me to believe that your test in safe mode was not enough to stress the system to the point where it would act up. A fresh install, however, applies a lot of stress as the hard drive and CPU are running at high speeds for a lengthy period of time.

Therefore, I wouldn't rule out overheating as a possible cause just yet. Try unseating the keyboard leaving it attached to the motherboard. Take a fan and blow it directly on the CPU heatsink. See if this makes any difference during a clean install. If not, then it must be a failing component on the motherboard or CPU. The last thing to try then would be to reseat the CPU/heatsink giving it a fresh application of thermal grease.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Einstein
[tab][navy]For posting policies, click [/navy]here.

 

[LawnBoy]

Have you checked the RAM? In the back of my mind I'm thinking Safe Mode uses a small memory model, may not be exercising a second dimm.


"We must fall back upon the old axiom that when all other contingencies fail, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes

 

[cdogg]

Yeah, that's a good suggestion but it appears he tried memtest already.

 

[LawnBoy]

Whoops, missed that.


"We must fall back upon the old axiom that when all other contingencies fail, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes

 

[drstefan]

it may be a battery problem. Try booting in safe mode (or with the battery removed if it works) and in Device Manager, under batteries, disable Microsoft ACPI-Compliant Control Method Battery. I had a similar problem, and this method solved it. I did not buy a new battery yet because even if ACPI was giving only aberrant infos about the battery status (like 0% or 4% charged even if the led at the front of laptop was green, so it was fully charged) the battery still holds some charge. I get now about 45 minutes running time on a full battery (when it was new it ran for 90 minutes). But since ACPI is disabled I can't monitor the charge left. If a new battery solves it please post it for all of us.
I used ACCSmart 2.0 to monitor the battery:

http://www.microsys.ro/download.htm,

but it also relies on ACPI so it gave me only false info.

 

[G0AOZ]

A fresh installation starts to fail whilst adjusting the basic settings. At this point you might have (basic Windows) drivers installed for modem, soundcard and network for instance. Can you boot this fresh installation into Safe Mode and disable this hardware? I have recently found a damaged modem caused all sorts of trouble for Windows...

ROGER - G0AOZ.

 

[wolluf]

Customer decided laptop not worth likely repair costs (as new ones are now so cheap) and are replacing it - so I can't try the battery suggestion (though given there was no problem with the battery and it failed clean install and repair install at different places several times, I doubt this was a battery problem).

 

[bummper]

I'm looking at a customer's Aspire 5000 with almost identical problems, but not, I think, at the level of severity you've described.

However, I'm very sure its a heat problem based on the history of these models, which are known to overheat and freeze or shutdown when the CPU is taxed (heat spikes). Google: "Aspire 5000 and overheating". FYI

It appears the heat sink on these do have issues, either bad design, bad machining or bad paste. I'll go with bad paste since the problem matures with age. I'm going to disassemble and reinstall with a light application of Artic Silver. And, I'm willing to bet it resolves these freezing issues from what I've researched.

That's not to say your suspect machine hasn't other issues.

Monitor your CPU temp. at the ACPI level in Windows with a freebie: MobileMeter:

http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Info/MobileMeter.shtml

The system is managing a minimal package in Safe Mode, so you should not see the heat-taxing issues there. Start disabling devices one by one and test to see if the problem persists. Memtest tests physical memory, but does not see when badly written software (even from Microsoft) tries to assess reserved or non-existent memory addresses, which is also a common cause of freeze ups. Check the existing Application log in event viewer.

These are great laptops. It would be in the customer's best interest to at least invest in the cost to reset the heat sink, before dumping this machine.

So, to repeat myself:

DO re-seat the thermal package on the CPU with a quality paste. Test the machine under heavy load.

DO disable as many devices/peripherals as possible. Test and bring them back one at a time.

DO run MobileMeter and watch for heat spikes under load. Run it before you reset the heat sink, and then afterwards for comparison.

OR, Sell the customer a Macbook and dump this troublemaker on ebay <g>

Have a great day!

 

[bummper]

Follow up:

I pulled the thermal unit and I was mistaken on one thing, there is no paste (which I should have known as most laptops are using metal foil), but I placed a light layer of Artic Silver anyways. There's not much holding the thin heat plate to the CPU so I think the silver will help.

Temperature readings are now 4-5 degrees cooler from 51 C prior, to now around 44-46 C in Mobile Meter. I ramped up the processor a few times and didn't see the temperature spikes like I did prior. So, I think this will help a lot.

As for the freezing problems overall, I won't know the effect until this unit gets some extended use on the customer side.

Sorry I caught this post a month late. But there you go...

 

[bummper]

Followup/followup:

Customer cranked this machine all weekend and reports no problems and said it was running "faster". So, In my case at least, I think reseating the heat sink was the answer.

Case closed. <g>