is the pabx dead 21

[hostedtelephone]

we have just put our 5000 user on our hosted system and we are seing sales of pabx drop like a stone. do you think the days of a piece of tin numberd when its so easy to install and maintain on hosted???

 

[GordonKapesMZ4]

I definitely think new manufacturing of key systems and most pabx systems are short for this world except the CS1000 and I hate to say it the IP office. Cs1000 is the only PBX left in the world that can still be 100 percent TDM without IP phones and is still very popular.

with that said, I've found clients in small towns who truly appreciate a good refurbished Nortel Norstar system because they are tanks and keep working and working. Whe the phones get old, buy new t series on the Internet. When you want VoIP, but VoIP via ATA and hook into your system the old fashioned CO punch down way.

Ip Pbx systems are definitely not dead.

 

[BoskerTheArkite]

I disagree.
VOIP systems are a gimmick.
No flexibility.
Poor quality of conversations.
Too much downtime.
Un-green (high heat output).
High priced phones.
High price to re-do infrastructure which is usually already in place.
PABX is here to stay.

 

[hostedtelephone]

I disagree.
VOIP systems are a gimmick.
No flexibility.
Poor quality of conversations.
Too much downtime.
Un-green (high heat output).
High priced phones.
High price to re-do infrastructure which is usually already in place.
PABX is here to stay.

how can you say that and i was talking about hosted. but they are

more flexable
if voip is setup the quality will be better
we have 99999 up time
greener that 300-400 seperate pabx we would have to install
phones are same price as a good quality keyphone
most times no need to redo infrastructure

and i hate to say it the pabx is dead voip is the way foward and you ither need to get traind up or you will be out of work in 3-4 years if you cant work with voip

 

[hawks]

The PBX is not going anywhere for a while. You will either see it as some sort of Hybrid or a pure VoIP system but you will see it.

 

[biv343]

Cs1000 is the only PBX left in the world that can still be 100 percent TDM without IP phones "

Not quite true, unless you have a single cabinet or chassis on a new system. The phones might be TDM, but the connections between the cabinets are IP. Several other systems can be TDM only, such as the Avaya CM, but you don't see many 100% TDM systems being sold anymore. I miss the days of the Option 11, 61 and 81 where the only IP that existed was an ELAN connection to CallPilot.

 

[Dexman]

Traditional key/PBX hardware will continue to sell on the secondary market. The small end user (only a couple of POTS lines) may be best served with a small key system like the Avaya Partner ACS.

I "FEATURE 00

 

[mforrence]

Is the PABX Dead? Heck no! We have many many customers where IP and/or hosted makes neither financial nor technical sense. They may have a single PRI and 400+ phones - mostly used for internal communications. Some may only be used once per day and the cost of extending Ethernet would be out of this world. Use one 30-year-old cable pair or install new cable? Easy choice. Hosted is just the equivalent of centrex with keysets (as was offered by some COs with ISDN BRI). It can be very appropriate in the right situation such as a bank with offices all over town. But for a large manufacturing company or resort with phones scattered everywhere - much less viable.

 

[hairlessupportmonkey]

I doubt Avaya would agree with the OP. They didnt spend a billion buying Nortels pbx business just to let hosted take over.

ACSS - SME
General Geek

 

[mforrence]

"I doubt Avaya would agree with the OP. They didn't spend a billion buying Nortel's pbx business just to let hosted take over. "

Of course, that's not to say that Avaya can't make a bad decision...

 

[hostedtelephone]

The problem is most people do not understand hosted or its flexability we can install a hosted system and run analog phones on ATA from 1 extn up to 30 per moduel so there is no need to re cable and we have sites from 1 handset up to 800 dont get me rong i have installed pabx for 20 years but nothing is as flexable as hosted

 

[mforrence]

The problem is most people do not understand hosted or its flexability we can install a hosted system and run analog phones on ATA from 1 extn up to 30 per moduel so there is no need to re cable and we have sites from 1 handset up to 800 dont get me rong i have installed pabx for 20 years but nothing is as flexable as hosted

I didn't say that it couldn't be done. But is it cost-effective? Generally the advantage of hosted is reduction of hardware expense. But you start adding gateways and ATA units, now you've got hardware. Plus the cost of service. Like anything else, there is no such thing as "one size fits all".

 

[hairlessupportmonkey]

I love hosted, but the issue tends to be the customer sees it as cheap, and then never bothers to spend any money on the broadband that delivers it. The amount of people that run their whole business off one broadband connection is astounding then wonder why VoIP gets a bad rap.

ACSS - SME
General Geek

 

[donb01]

My biggest fear with a hosted environment in my line of work (Healthcare) is that if not done correctly with multiple points of connectivity to the world using multiple vendors, etc then the weakest link is your broadband connection. With a system in-house, whether it be PBX, VOIP or Hybrid, you can build in a bit more sustainability in the event you lose your broadband connection. Of course if our connection to the CO/dialtone provider goes down it's kind of a moot point, but the plan we are headed for right now is to have a Hybrid VIOP system that is about 95% VOIP, but has TDM phones in all of the most critical locations. So if the nurses desk has 2 phones now, one will be VOIP and one will be TDM even though the phones will look exactly the same. If we lose a network switch, or an edge router, or some idiot vendor wrecks a fiber run or whatever, those locations will still have service, and can call and be called in an emergency. Of course if the whole system tanks that will be a moot point, and if we lose connectivity to the CO it will be the same, but it does add a measure of redundancy, which, along with redundant critical electronics in the mix can help. We also have a WAN of sorts that connects all of our sites together, and each site will also be able to stand on its own if it loses the network connection to the mother ship.

In my humble opinion it's hard to do that with a hosted environment. In my town, with one primary last-mile carrier there are only so many ways to redundantly get service into our buildings without costly spending on special outside plant from additional vendors. Our city does have dark fiber plant in place, and we're definitely looking into what it will cost to use some of that for redundancy, but again, it will be quite expensive to roll it out....

I'm sure there are other companies thinking along that same logic stream, and I'm pretty comfortable that in-house equipment is still going to be around for at least the next 10 - 15 years, and at that point it will be time to look at the upgrade path again - who knows - it may be a completely different world then!

 

[hawks]

Quote (hostedtelephone)
The problem is most people do not understand hosted or its flexability we can install a hosted system......

I'm a little confused because as I know it a Hoseted solution is a system off site and not installed at a customer location.

 

[hostedtelephone]

the thing peole dont understand is the weak link in any disater recovery is the tin on the wall if that dies or you are flooded out you are stuck with no service. With hosted you can go and work at home anuther office or even starbcks and you will still be conected thats somthing you cant do with tin as if its dead you are stuck. you are also not reliant on just 1 conection in a fail you can use your data conection and we have even put gsm backup on some sites.

 

[Sympology]

the thing peole dont understand is the weak link in any disater recovery is the tin on the wall if that dies or you are flooded out you are stuck with no service."


I call crap on that.
All our IP PBX's all have redundant backups, and we happily bounce calls between sites for 0 cost, including around much of Europe, utilizing local call charges where possible for break out. We've people sat in the UK connected directly to other sites in Europe as that's where they do much of their business.
You make out hosted is the only way to work at other locations. Rubbish. We have people using softphones over VPN's all the time. Everything you say you do we probably do just as well if not better.
We have multiple ISDN lines going to multiple Carrier DC's, and multiple carriers. These in turn go to multiple proxies and in-turn go to multiple PBX's
Our kit switches lines in an instant, we see back up links kicking in all the time because we have such low threshold before it switches to a back up route .
Now throw in voice-mail (including the ability to send it to multiple email addresses), full call centre facilities, visual call control, IVR's (as many as we want for no cost), customised call routing, least cost routing and on and on.

So again, what is the benefit for us?


Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

http://alvechurchlounge.org.uk

 

[BoskerTheArkite]

There is no way on earth VOIP can give the quality of voice transmission as TDM. It can only approximate TDM service.
And what about down time?
What about energy waste?
What about costs to implement?
I'm going to a system that can do it all, so that we can get the best bang for the buck where we need it (Avaya S8500 with G650 gateways).

 

[hostedtelephone]

There is no way on earth VOIP can give the quality of voice transmission as TDM. It can only approximate TDM service.
And what about down time?
What about energy waste?
What about costs to implement?
I'm going to a system that can do it all, so that we can get the best bang for the buck where we need it (Avaya S8500 with G650 gateways).

what rubbish

what do you think all the carriers use in there core network "VOIP"
What energy waste ? 1 server running 50-60 thousand phones is allot more eficiant than tin on wall
no inital hardwhere cost and just a monthly rental
you allways have the most up to date system with no expencive upgrades for new featurs you just get them

 

[hostedtelephone]

Sympology (MIS)


11 Jul 12 5:36





"the thing peole dont understand is the weak link in any disater recovery is the tin on the wall if that dies or you are flooded out you are stuck with no service."


I call crap on that.
All our IP PBX's all have redundant backups, and we happily bounce calls between sites for 0 cost, including around much of Europe, utilizing local call charges where possible for break out. We've people sat in the UK connected directly to other sites in Europe as that's where they do much of their business.
You make out hosted is the only way to work at other locations. Rubbish. We have people using softphones over VPN's all the time. Everything you say you do we probably do just as well if not better.
We have multiple ISDN lines going to multiple Carrier DC's, and multiple carriers. These in turn go to multiple proxies and in-turn go to multiple PBX's
Our kit switches lines in an instant, we see back up links kicking in all the time because we have such low threshold before it switches to a back up route .
Now throw in voice-mail (including the ability to send it to multiple email addresses), full call centre facilities, visual call control, IVR's (as many as we want for no cost), customised call routing, least cost routing and on and on.

So again, what is the benefit for us?


in a nutshell cost and profit and life expectancy how much did all that kit cost and if you are a dealer when you have sold it thats it appart from support we get a ongoing support contract plus ongoing rentel and what happends in 6-7 years time its all out of date and unsuportable. look at avaya and how they change there sw versions so fast and then dont support you on older versions