Intel P4 Hyper-Threading vs Dual-core CPU?

[CraigHappy]

Hi

I currently have a AMD Athlon XP 3200+ with ASUS A7N8X Deluxe mobo with 1024MB RAM.

I want to upgrade my system, but I'm need a little help making my mind up.....

I'm going to buy a pre-built motherboard bundle (cpu, mobo & ram) from Novatech, but I can't decide whether to go for a cheaper P4 3.0Ghz Hyper-Threading CPU or a far more expensive P4 3.0Ghz Dual-core CPU?
If I went for the cheaper option, I could use my currect AGP 128MB Graphics card and my DDR3200 RAM, but if I go for the Dual Core option, I will need to upgrade to a PCI-E graphics card and need to use DDR2 RAM, as that's the type of motherboard the bundle with it.

Will I see a huge difference between the two for running web and graphics software and maybe doing a virus scan or backing up data at the same time?

Look forward to hearing your views.

Many thanks, Craig.

 

[Wishdiak]

CraigHappy,

You'd see an performance boost overall with a dual-core over a hyperthreading single-core CPU, but there is a third option.

Assuming that the DDR2 memory that you'd get on the dual-core board is faster than PC3200 (mine is PC5400), you could get a Pentium 4 with hyperthreading on a board that supports DDR2. If all you're interested in is web and grapics software, then the amount of memory is probably more relevant than the speed.

I don't recommend the Asus P5LD2-VM board that I currently have, but for other reasons. It will support hyperthreading, 1066 mhz FSB, and DDR2, but so will plenty of other boards.

Wishdiak
A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA: Security 2003

http://www.wishdiak.com

 

[cdogg]

Hyperthreading only helps in situations where the CPU is not being used to its fullest. Hyperthreading attempts to seperate commands coming in from different applications so that they reach the CPU in parallel streams instead of waiting in line.

But when one application is using above 90% of the CPU, hyperthreading has virtually no effect. It is not an alternative to dual-core CPU's. As a matter of fact, dual-core CPU's use hyperthreading as well.

With that said, I'd say it depends on what you have now. Seeing that you have an Athlon XP 3200+, I don't think you'd see a whole lot of improvement going to a single-core 3.0GHz P4 - maybe 10-15% at best overall.

I think the best solution for you would be to upgrade to an Athlon 64 3400+ (or faster). If you think you're a heavy multitasker, then possibly consider the Athlon X2 or the dual-core P4. You will only see a real benefit in a dual-core if you like to perform at least two heavy operations simultaneously. Hard drive and optical drive configuration in your PC is also very important.

Good luck!


~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[paparazi]

CraigHappy
Going single core Intel 3gig on a AGP based motherboard is just no worth the expense given your current system.
Your XP3.2+ on the fastest platform for Socket A (the NF2) is only marginally slower so your upgrade would be somewhat disapointing.

XP3.2+ CPU's are commanding ridiculously high used prices at the moment, I sold one last week for £102 ($175) and only had to add another £20 ($35) to upgrade to a Venice core Athlon64 3500 (939)
Nforce4X motherboards are really cheap and you could keep your PC3200 memory although you would need to move to a PCI-e graphics card.
Martin



We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[CraigHappy]

Hi Guys

Many thanks for your advise, it does all help.

The main reason I was thinking of changing over to Intel instead of AMD, is that I've had a right job with stability with the AMD and I heard that programs tend to be more stable with an Intel processor.

I've had to reformat and reinstall a few times now and I've never really been happy with the AMD CPU / ASUS Mobo since I got it.
So I thought if I was going to change, why not try something different?

I understand what you all say reference the high spec I have already, but I hoped that the Hyper-Threading or Dual-core CPU would make a big difference for running different applications at the same time?

The main applications I use are Dreamweaver and Fireworks design software.
But I often have to wait until I've finished using DW&F to run other software like nero burning to a dvd disk or whole drive virus scans which takes hours, as I have loads of data on my multiple drives, so I thought that Hyper-Threading or Dual-core, might allow me to do two things at once? Which I can't really do with the currect system, every thing just slows right down!

I would be interested on your views with this?

Thanks again, Craig.

 

[cdogg]

Like I said before, hyperthreading only helps when the CPU is not being maxed out by ONE application.

On average, most workstations that run many applications at once might see a 5% boost or so in performance using Hyperthreading than having it disabled. That's it. Less than 10%, and in some applications it doesn't help at all.

Hyperthreading is not something to be concerned about. It's like the SSE or SSE2 instruction set built into the CPU. Nobody really talks about it anymore because there are other more important factors now, like dual-core.


So you say you had "instability" problems that you think might have been caused by having an AMD CPU. Could you elaborate further? Is there something that makes you think it's the CPU? Instability is almost always caused by a Windows infection, high system temperatures, poorly written application, or faulty driver. It's a [blue]myth[/blue] that Intel's are more stable when it comes to running an application...

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[CraigHappy]

OK, that rules out a standard P4 CPU with Hyperthreading for me, sounds likes there will be no gains there.

The instability issues may be coming from the CPU, Mobo or even the RAM, which one, I'm not totally sure, but I have tried a good number of different types of RAM, the last being crucial ram which their site recommends for my mobo, but it still freezes or sometimes restarts all on it's own, even though I've reformatted and reinstalled windows several times.
Also this is the second CPU, the first was a Athlon XP 2800+, which I had the same problems with.

So that's why I though I would have a complete change, as I use the system all day long for work and I need something I can rely on.

So from what you've all said, I'm going to take a closer look a the P4 & AMD Dual Core systems.

Many thanks, Craig.

 

[Wishdiak]

Instability is almost always caused by a Windows infection, high system temperatures, poorly written application, or faulty driver.

While I agree with you on the whole AMD/Intel debate, "instability" is a somewhat vague term.

This instability could also be caused by a host of hardware problems, such as bad RAM, a defective hard drive (or defective CD/DVD ROM on the same IDE controller), the IDE controller itself, bad power supply, etc.

Wishdiak
A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA: Security 2003

http://www.wishdiak.com

 

[1DMF]

HappyCraig

I've never really been happy with the AMD CPU / ASUS Mobo since I got it.

I would say exactly the same thing with my setup which is Intel & ASUS (P4 2.8ghz with HT & ASUS P4C800 Deluxe)

So I wouldn't dismiss AMD, especially with the new AM2 on the Horizon, I actually beleive that the poor performance is down to the ASUS board and I have built a few PC's in my time, at work we have 3 pc's with ASUS boards and they have all had problems.

I have had many MB's Gigabyte, PC-Chips, MSI, ChainTech, Intel to name a few and out of all of them ASUS has been the worst (in my opinion).

Which is worrying me as I am in the upgrade dilemer and find the only board about to come on the market offering what i want is an ASUS.

So I'm crossing my fingers and hoping SuperMicro hurry up and announce their offering real soon for the AM2 platform.

and if you look at all the tests Athlon 64 FX & X2 beat even the new Pentium Extreme 955 Presler chip.

We are at a massive junction in the AMD vs Intel debate and making a rash decision now could come back to haunt you.

Single core processor are definately dead and although applications today do not utilise dual core fully, i'm sure it won't be long before they do and that few extra bucks on a dual processor, could be worth it in the long run giving your PC that few extra years before needing another upgrade, as they enevitably always do!

If you only care about hardcore gaming for the present then an overclocked single core processor performs better, but I don't think it's worth spending all that money just for a machine that is only for the here and now and won't give you as much longevity in the long run.

And if you are a real hardcore gamer, you'll want a board that support SLI and wack 2 top of the range graphics cards in it, and now your talking serious money, so you might as well go that little extra and get a decent processor, mainboard and memory!

well that's my 2pence worth.





"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[cdogg]

Wishdiak,
Yes, thanks. I wasn't trying to limit the possibilities by that statement - just some common ones to illustrate the point that there are others things to consider. I could have written an entire page trying to name them all...

Craig,
There are cases like this where a bad or underpowered power supply could be the culprit. Or perhaps like 1DMF said, a bad motherboard (bent/damaged capicitors can cause that). Unfortunately, it can get expensive to troubleshoot when you don't have spare parts lying around to test. If you do decide to start over with a new system, don't let this experience lead you to believe there is something wrong with AMD.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[CraigHappy]

Thanks again Guys.

With all your feedback and thoughts, It has reassured me that I don't need to rule out an AMD system. So they are back on the list!

Out of interest, what size of PSU would you guys recommend for my current setup, running a DVD-RW, DVD-R, 2 x HardDrives and all the usual internal stuff.?

Also I currently have a 120GB IDE Harddrive, I was thinking of going to a Serial drive, are there any speed benefits there?

Cheers, Craig.

 

[rvnguy]

Out of interest, what size of PSU

I think that the suggestions you will get here is do not skimp on the PSU...

It is the heart of any system (CPU the brain) and if the heart gives out it can take much with it. There are several "quality" PSU's out there. You should find that the better one's are rated in RMS power, or continuous versus some the peak ratings offered by the lesser types. There are also better protection circuits in the higher quality types that assist in protecting your investment.

Not a hard and fast rule, but, go and look at a $35-50 compared to a $120-200 PSU of similar ratings. You will almost always, notice that the weight is dramatically different. All heavy duty components. A 400 to 500 watt RMS will power all but the extreme systems.

CPU's are in the 100-130 range, drives 5watt each(high) fans 1 watt, Graphics high end 30 watts. Add it up allow for some head room & you should be good.

rvnguy
"I know everything..I just can't remember it all

 

[Grenage]

Indeed, do not be put off AMD. I was an Intel 'fanboy' for many years after experiencing the K6 processor. My latest machine is a Dual 3400 and I really couldn't be happier with it. It required an AMD patch to cure one problem but it's never crashed since.


Carlsberg don't run I.T departments, but if they did they'd probably be more fun.

 

[CraigHappy]

Many thanks Guys

When I'm ready I'll be looking at an AMD X2 system!

Cheers, Craig.

 

[1DMF]

I came to the same conclusion only I'm gonna hold out for AM2

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.