How to do the connection? 4

[jsgs]

Hi!

I hope I'm posting this thread in the right forum.

Situation:
I have one PC which is connected to a livebox via the network port for access to the net.

I have a second PC which is connected to a heavy-duty printer via the network port.

The PCs are around 25m away from each other. They both have Windows XP.

Issue:
I want to set up a network so both PCs can get access to the net and to the printer. In fact I'm planning to add 1 more PC to the lot.

How can I do that?

I'm complete dummy in network matters so your help will really be welcome and appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[vacunita]

Unless you have more network ports available in your livebox, you'll likely have to buy an extra piece of hardware.

The extra piece of hardware can either be an ethernet switch if you want to keep your network wired, a router if your livebox doesn't have that functionality(also keeping the network wired) though I suspect it does, or a wireless access point if you want to make your network wireless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_switch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_access_point

So think about that and get back to us so we can further advise.



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Ignorance is not necessarily Bliss, case in point:
Unknown has caused an Unknown Error on Unknown and must be shutdown to prevent damage to Unknown.

 

[wahnula]

Keep in mind:

1. Wired is usually better, with a faster connection, especially between 2 PCs on the network, and free from interference. If you can easily route wires this will give you the best connection.

2. Wireless is usually easier, once you get past the learning curve. Install a wireless card, join it to the network, and that's it. No possibly inconvenient stringing of cables, and you're free to put the PCs wherever you want.

If you're going wireless, remember that the radio in a Wireless Access Point is almost always superior to the radio in a combination Access Point & Router. My home office network uses a gigabit switch connected to the equivalent of your "livebox", and a WAP (Wireless Access Point) connected to the switch, so I have both wired connections for the PCs in the office and wireless access throughout the house and for guests.

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[jsgs]

I can't use wireless because there are too many obstacles within the range. So I'll get the ethernet switch.

I don't know if my livebox is also a router. Is there any way to check that?

 

[wahnula]

I don't know if my livebox is also a router. Is there any way to check that?

How many RJ-45 input jacks does it have? If more than one it's probably a router.

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[jsgs]

There are two. One I use to connect to my PC for the net and the other connects to a TNT decoder for digital TV. So it's a router. Now do I still need another router or just a switch?

I got these 3 different connections.
From Microsoft's site:

From compnetworking.about.com:

Which one is better?

 

[vacunita]

Unless you have a solid titanium laced concrete wall between the wireless access point and the target computers, I doubt the signal will be too noticeably degraded.

But anyway:

Simplest way to find out if its a router, would be to check whether the computer that is connected to the livebox is getting its Ip address assigned automatically or if its manually set.

As for your diagrams, the first and second one are operationally the same, except the second one has more devices connected to the router than the first one.

The third one is not very practical as you would need to have one computer on all the time so the other PC's can have internet access.

Based on what you've told us, all you really need is a switch.

Once you get it, you'll need to find the uplink port of the switch and plug your livebox to that. then plug your computers to the other available ports.





----------------------------------
Ignorance is not necessarily Bliss, case in point:
Unknown has caused an Unknown Error on Unknown and must be shutdown to prevent damage to Unknown.

 

[wahnula]

I'm still not sold that what you have is a router, if you could supply the make/model we can nail it down. My one suggestion would be that the switch also be a wireless router so you have that future capability for adding devices and supplying Internet for guests w/ wireless laptops. You can disable the DHCP if you already have a router and disable the radio if you're not using wireless, but it's all about the future, and wireless adds little to the cost and lots to the usability.

Likewise, I would recommend that the switch part be a gigabit switch, there is quite a difference in PC-to-PC file transfer between 100MB and 1 GB transfer speeds. This is an example:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/128049

As for your diagrams, #1 makes the most sense.

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[jsgs]

vacunita:

My livebox allows me to connect 3 PCs to the net. One via network port, one via USB port and one wireless. I've got a USB WLAN device for that. I've tried to use it but if sometimes I get a very weak signal, at other times I don't get a connection at all. That's why I ruled out wireless.

The livebox assigns IP address automatically.

wahnula:
Make & model: Livebox DSagem EXP
If I use diagram #1, will I be able to share the printer as well?

 

[wahnula]

jsgs,

From this information all you need is a switch, I would still get a gigabit switch for communications between the two PCs. The wireless issue is what happens when they try and cram a DSL modem, router, switch, and WAP into one box.

As vacunita pointed out, with modern wireless equipment, unless you have steel mesh lath in the walls you should be able to get a usable wireless signal throughout the house/apartment with modern, dedicated wireless equipment.

You will be able to connect a printer to the switch ONLY if the printer is network-ready (has an ethernet jack), or the switch has a print server that supports your printer.

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[G0AOZ]

The Freeserve/Wanadoo/Orange Livebox IS a router. And yes, it issues IP Addresses.

ROGER - G0AOZ.

 

[vacunita]

My livebox allows me to connect 3 PCs to the net. One via network port, one via USB port and one wireless. I've got a USB WLAN device for that. I've tried to use it but if sometimes I get a very weak signal, at other times I don't get a connection at all. That's why I ruled out wireless.

As wahnula pointed out, that's probably a hardware limitation of the Livebox rather than being a topological or geographical limitation of the house. Its Wireless antenna is probably just a weaker one that the commercially available ones for dedicated wireless devices.

but anyway, if you want to go wired, then a switch is all you need. And judging by this:

I have a second PC which is connected to a heavy-duty printer via the [red]network port[/red].

It should be possible to connect the printer to the switch, and have it be useable by the other PC's you'll likely need to follow the network setup instructions for the Printer on each machine that's going to be using the printer.

As I said diagram 1 and diagram 2 are the same. In your case he Router will be replaced by the switch, and your livebox will be connected to the switch via the uplink port on it.

----------------------------------
Ignorance is not necessarily Bliss, case in point:
Unknown has caused an Unknown Error on Unknown and must be shutdown to prevent damage to Unknown.

 

[Sympology]

I'm guessing this is an Orange Livebox and he lives in the UK.
First up it does have a decent signal strength, but I've seen the best wireless devices crippled by some houses in the UK. If it's an older house they can have thick stone walls or engineering brick, try drilling them and you'll find the reason no signal gets through.
Anyway back to the point.
What I did on mine, before I dumped Orange, was stick a basic little 8 port switch on the ethernet port that normally goes to your pc. Then hook your devices into there. had no issues getting it to work.
Now cabling may be an issue, but for some great guides look at

http://www.firewall.cx/

They have a guide from basic to advanced networking. May help you out

Most people spend their time on the "urgent" rather than on the "important."

 

[jsgs]

wahnula, vacunita:

As I understand, if I replace my USB WLAN device with a modern wireless router/switch and equip my PCs with wireless network cards, I would get a decent signal. Is that right?

I forgot to mention that the PCs are not in the same building. They are both in rooms which remain more or less always closed in different buildings some 25m apart. So there are many walls in between and trees as well.

 

[G0AOZ]

With the brief scenario you've outlined, e.g. many walls and trees, I doubt you'd ever get reliable WiFi comms, if at all. WiFi signals at 2.4GHz will be much attenuated trying to get through walls, and you'll get very variable results if there are trees in between. Pure unhindered line of sight between the router's antenna and the computer's WiFi card/antenna would generally work at 25m, but not with all you're telling us you've got in between.

It's possible to buy Access Points in durable external housings, so could you mount them on your builds so they could "see" each other without obstructions?

ROGER - G0AOZ.

 

[vacunita]

I hadn't really gauged how far 25m. With walls and doors and trees between them yes, the wireless signal will degrade significantly.
I guess the wireless is not an option in that scenario.

So you are planning on snaking 25m of cable between different buildings?
not sure how that's going to work, but at least is possible.



----------------------------------
Ignorance is not necessarily Bliss, case in point:
Unknown has caused an Unknown Error on Unknown and must be shutdown to prevent damage to Unknown.

 

[wahnula]

Wireless is a convenience, and really nice to have, even if it's only as a secondary connection. Like I mentioned, nothing performs like a wired connection, especially for file transfer. Gigabit wired is even better.

I would still recommend having a wireless option whether or not it is in use all the time, just be sure to disable it when it's not in use for security reasons. I have found it nice to be able to offer guests an easy way to access the Internet when visiting, during family gatherings it is not unusual to have 4-6 laptops humming away.

You can always add a more-powerful WAP to the (hopefully gigabit) switch as well as a signal amplifier (

http://www.radiolabs.com)

to get the signal usable.

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[G0AOZ]

Tony, I'm always a little wary of just bunging on more RF power. Sure, you'll get the signal out further, but unless the device has an equally good receiver front end, or the remote end of the link is running an identical amplifier, you'll end up being given the "crocodile" tag, i.e. all mouth and no ears! (We have a few hams like that I'm afraid - run several Kilowatts but don't increase their receive capability!)

However, a good thought - always good to have several options available.

ROGER - G0AOZ.

 

[wahnula]

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[jsgs]

vacunita,

Yes I'm planning on snaking 25m of cable between different buildings. I know it's a bit weird but I don't have pretty much of a choice since now the wireless option has been completely ruled out.

Thanks for all your inputs and help guys. I'll get myself a gigabit switch as advised by Tony and the necessary cabling and do the connection. I will get to you as soon as I finish the job for a feedback.