Dead-with-power after attempted CPU upgrade

[MrRedwood]

Yesterday I attempted to do a housemate a favor: he's poor (as I am) and was using a Win98 machine with a 267MHz Celeron -- the first generation, without a cache. I looked around and found a 400MHz CPU I could get for about $6.

I was under the impression his motherboard was a Gigabyte GA-686LX, but discovered (too late) that it was the GA-686EX2 (written on the board) and couldn't take 400MHz -- tops out at 367.

So, I installed the 400MHz CPU in the Slot 1, flipped the microswitches to what I thought was the right positions, and powered on. The fan and disk started spinning, but nothing else, not even POST beeps.

I looked around and couldn't see what the problem might be, so I reversed tracks. I reset the microswitches and reinstalled the original CPU -- same result: nothing but fan noise and a spinning disk. No beeps, nothing on the screen.

Now, in a previous lifetime I did field service (for DEC), so I'm no klutz -- I'm fairly certain there were no static discharges or over-flexing of circuit boards.

After checking everything I could think of, I tried resetting the system. Since I don't have a manual and couldn't spot an obvious bios-reset jumper, I just popped the battery out for a minute or so; but after replacing it there was no change in the symptoms.


So: is it really likely that briefly flipping the clock speed microswitches to an incorrect setting would do such damage? Is there something I missed, or some diagnostic step I could take next?

(Implicitly related question: does anyone know where I could find a really, really, really cheap replacement motherboard or system? -- I still have the 400MHz slot 1, and I've got a 700 MHz socket 370 that should work... but I'm honor-bound to get his system running again or replace it...)

Thanks.

 

[Freestone]

I found this link that contains an overview of the board, including switch and jumper settings: GA-686EX2 (REV. 1.0)

Ensure you didn't dislodge any jumpers, especially JP1 which is nearest the CPU socket. Since this is an older motherboard, after unplugging the machine from the mains, try reseating everything on the motherboard: all jumpers, memory, cards, power connector, etc. as any one piece could have developed "creep" and was jarred loose. If the motherboard is dusty, you may want to clean that out too. You'd be amazed at just how quickly a small piece of dust shorting just the right area can bring a system down. The memory sockets seems particularly sensitive to dust, in my experience.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[MrRedwood]

OK, I took it apart on the kitchen table and cleaned everything (yuck!) including wiping all goldfingers down with rubbing alcohol.

Long after the alcohol was dry and dust was blown away, I reassembled and applied power. No difference: no POST response, no sound besides fan and disk spinning up.

I am able to provide one more tidbit that may or may not be relevant: the soft power switch still works. That is, holding the front panel switch down for three-or-so seconds still shuts down power. Is this a sign of BIOS activity, or does a circuit way back in the power supply see this signal?

Oh one other: many months ago we were fiddling with his system and put it back together with the AGP card poorly seated, and got the error beep. Today, when putting things back together, I specifically tried powering-on with only CPU and RAM, hoping for the video-missing beep: nothing.

I'm screwed, aren't I?

Any opinions on cheap sources for P2 or P3 motherboards?

 

[MrRedwood]

I punted: bought a mobo of a similar generation on eBay (if you're interested: <

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3487329658>),

so I could pop in either of the two Slot 1 CPUs I had, and also use the old mobo's ram, 1 ISA card, 2 PCI cards and 1x AGP card.

A tech buddy told me the Win98 on the HD should effectively not see the difference between mobos, since all it cares about is the unholy nonsense of IRQs and all the black magic. Since the cards will be the same, it'll work, right? He also told me the dual IDEs integrated into the mobo would be cool; but I didn't ask about the integrated USB. But once I'm running I can always search for new drivers.

My only worry now is plugging the CPU in once I receive shipment. Oh well: "get on a horse soon after one throws ya."

Thanks for the help. Maybe I'll be back here someday when I decide to build a Linux system.

 

[Grenage]

When you plug all the devices in and do not reformat, windows will detect all the new hardware and install the driver... probably. Otherwise it just won't work.

Either way once you have your data from the drive I recommend reformatting it and starting with a fresh install.

 

[MrRedwood]

Otherwise it just won't work"?

Can't I boot it up in safe mode or something with 'generic' drivers? Both the old and new mobos support PnP, if that helps.

I wish I could do a fresh install, but the system was a hand-me-down and didn't come with install or even rescue CDs. And I'm pretty sure it only has a CDrom, not a burner.

Yup, we're talking low-budget livin'-on-the-edge usage of a computer. But then all he really needs to do email and to be able to surf the net with AOL.

 

[Grenage]

Well there have been instances when I have had to do what you are planning, just plugging in a drive with an OS already on it and letting windows reconfigure itself.

There has only been one instance where it just would not boot up, so your chances are good.

 

[Freestone]

A lot of times the CAB files required to install Windows 9x are placed on a hard drive to prevent the need for searching for the elusive install CD when new hardware is added. Before trying to get the current Windows 98 to boot, boot with a DOS diskette and search the drive for these CAB files. I've seen them placed alot of times under directory Windows\Options\Cabs. For Windows 98SE there is about 102 files, not counting the OLS and Tour folders. If you're lucky, the CAB files will be present and enable you to do a complete reinstall of Windows, if necessary.

 

[MrRedwood]

Before trying to get the current Windows 98 to boot,"

What's the reason for this? Can't I just let the OS try to figure it out? Since your advice only includes an investigation... what would I do differently if they files are/aren't there?

[BTW, thanks: I knew some installs did that time-saving trick, but I didn't know how to tell where the files were hidden]

 

[Freestone]

Yes, it's an investigation, but you will know beforehand whether you'll be able to do a reinstall, if necessary. I should have elaborated more. If the files are present, then you will probably want to copy them to a directory off of the root of C:. Why? If you are unlucky and your Windows won't boot or locks up, which will likely be the case if the new motherboard chipset manufacturer is different than what Windows was installed under originally, you'll have to a clean install. However, since you don't have a CD, you won't be able to do a format then reinstall, otherwise you'll lose you only source of install files. With the files located off the root of C:, you will be able to blast the Windows directory with the DELTREE command without fear of losing your CAB files.

It may all be unnecessary, but I for one would like to have a copy of those install files somewhere else before venturing forth. Of course, these files may not exist at all, or if they do, don't assume they are where I stated earlier.

 

[MrRedwood]

It appears the old mobo had the Intel 440EX chipset, while the new one has Intel's "82443BX + FW82371EB" Chipset.

Both use the Award bios.

I'll post an update when I receive the mobo.

 

[MrRedwood]

To wrap this up: the Mobo works fine with the 400MHz processor (I didn't try the slower one). I was very relieved when I heard those first POST beeps.

I ran into one small hardware problem, and still have a number of software issues.

HW: the header that attaches to the front panel gizmos (power switch, HD LED, speaker, etc) isn't compatible: on the new mobo, some pins are shared and so prevent me from attaching both, say, the reset switch and the speaker. Any solution? Right now we don't have a reset switch, so we have to hold down the power button for several seconds.

I'll ask about the SW issues on the OS side of Tek-Tips. The first one is at <

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?SQID=871885&SPID=615>

Thanks for all your help.

 

[SirNuke]

I have commonly came across computers where the case's pins do not fit perfectly (often I can't plug the power led). You may be able to take a wire out of one of the plugs and glue it into another place on the plug, but for a reset switch or a speaker, its probually not worth the risk of messing something up. In terms of reset versus speaker, I would go with the reset, unless you are suspecting hw issues (if the correct pins are not labeled on the motherboard, I highly suggest you right them down and place the paper inside the case)

SirNuke