Computer won't boot, PSU not culprit.

[JacksonVFR]

A few weeks back I created a thread regarding my main computer. It seemed that the PSU had failed, symptoms being no video, failure to beep on rebooting and that I had noticed a smell and much heat coming from the PSU. I sent it (just the PSU) in to Cyber-Power, the semi-famous company I purchased my customized PC from.

I recived my new one today and recieve the exact same symptoms. I already excluded the video card, due to that regardless of having no picture it doesn't boot properly/make the "right" sounds. I suppose I can exclude the PSU now. I thought the motherboard was ok due to that the green power light on the board is illuminated and that the CPU fan spins. None of the capacitors seem to have any bulging or "goo" leaking from them. I hope my hard-drives are ok, they spin, but like I said I get no boot screen.

So my question to you all is asking what you think may be the culprit(s)? Note that I haven't added any new hardware to the computer and when it originally failed it was right smack in the middle of me just browsing the Internet and listening to music using software I always used, doing things I always do. Should I reset settings on my motherboard, and if so which ones? I followed the directions for CMOS, but it did nothing fresh and new. I know my way around computers a bit, but not too well. If you guys could take the extra step explaining ideas I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance!

 

[mainegeek]

JacksonVFR,
You should disconnect all your drives and remove all add on cards. In other words you should try powering on with just the cpu and fan,memory and video. If your mobo has integrated video then you should use that and remove the add on video card. If not, make sure the fan on the video card is spinning if it has one. Are you running a P4 and did you connect the additional 4pin 12v plug from the power supply to the mobo when you did the PS swap?

 

[paparazi]

nfortunately it is common for a PSU failure to also damage other components in the process.
Typically hard drives will blow a power chip (sometimes visable pot mark can be seen on a PCB chip)

As mainegeek says, disconnect cdroms/hard drives and addon cards and if at this point you see a post? then start re-connecting components one at a time.

It is also possible if you have a shorted out component (HDD or CDrom) that this unit will have in turn blown the brand new power supply.
Martin

We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[edfair]

It is quite possible that the M/B failed, taking the PS with it, and all following power supplies.
It isn't supposed to happen as there is over current shutdown built into the power supplies, but it happens.

It is also a possibility that the M/B is damaged. The LED is standby power used for powering up and completely independent of the other supplies. The CPU fan turning is a good sign.

As paparazi and mainegeek say, down to PS & MB for initial tests and build the system back up if things appear OK. I would even go further and leave out video for the first part of the test. Should get some indication of an error.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[firewolfrl]

I saw those symptoms before...my daughter (wise teenager she is) slid her computer around her bedroom (on carpet) and created a hell of a static discharge on her computer...her PSU was just a side symptom...the CD rom fried and would not let the system to even POST. same with the hard drive...the video card fried just after post ... the MB had onboard sound and the most god awfull screach came out of those speakers.

JacksonVFR if I were you I would suspect any port that comes out of your computer (mouse, keyboard, sound, video...etc)
it really sounds like your system had a static discharge on it

the best advice I can give you is bring the MB to a computer repair shop and have it tested. on a bench

 

[JacksonVFR]

If it helps, a rundown of some of my specs follows:
Asus A7N8X-X motherboard
AMD athlon XP 2500+ cpu
256 mb Corsair ram
L&C 350w power-supply (Are these any good/reliable? It's the new one they sent me)

Because I have an AMD cpu, I'm guessing I don't need the 4-pin connector? I don't remember the old power supply being connected to anything other than the motherboard connected by the 20-pin connector. Also, I can try running just my motherboard, cpu + fan and ram, maybe video because my mb doesn't have it integrated. Would the action I took of resetting the CMOS earlier influence my results, or should it boot fine upon testing (provided the "bare minimum" components work)?

I have been worried about my hard-drives, I was trying to connect them into this old computer I'm running now, temporarily. One has Windows XP on it and wouldn't boot, so can it be that my old computer here just can't run it (64mb ram, 333 celeron cpu, etc.. old old old)? The drive I usually run as slave showed up in my old computer's boot screen under the name "Maxtor 80...blah.blah", so does that verify it as fine? It wouldn't load though, because I didn't set the jumpers correctly to slave/master with the current hard-drive I have in here, because they're of a different make and I didn't know where to set them. Hope I'm not being confusing, I'm just worried about my hard-drives and only have this old computer to test them in.

Thanks for the advice so far guys. I'll get back to you all later with the results of running the bare minimum.

 

[JacksonVFR]

COMPUTER TESTED, YOU CAN IGNORE LAST POST!

Ok, so I was actually able to figure out what jumpers to use and tested my main computer's hard drive in my old computer. They both work as well as the cd rom and dvd drive, good news for me there. My ram, video card and soundcard all look good upon removal and examination.

I tested my machine using only the AMD processer, Asus motherboard and got the results of a solid green light and no beeps. The red "activity" light was never illuminated. I tested these ways in addition to that and recieved the exact same results:
mobo, cpu, hard-drive
mobo, cpu, hard-drive, video card
mobo, cpu, video card

My next step I suppose is to remove the motherboard and take off the processer's heatsink fan and have a look, right? Any tips on how to examine it and what to look for? I've never done this, but I'm comfortable doing so. I also hope if need be that I can take the motherboard itself to a shop and they can tell me. It'd probably be cheaper than taking the whole tower, because I've narrowed the problem down myself.

 

[BadBigBen]

Have you tried the OLD GFX card in the new PC? just the mobo, CPU, and Video, all IDE cables and USB off the mobo...

and is the FSB jumper correctly set?
(

http://www.asuscom.de/products/mb/socketa/a7n8x-x/jumper.htm)

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[JacksonVFR]

Hey, BadBigBen. Thanks, but I have not touched the motherboard outside of resetting the CMOS, and that was even after I already had "the problem". The FSB jumper is in the default positon, according to that chart.

As for the graphics card, this old machine doesn't have one, it's all on board. I would try my main machine's ATI 128 MB card in here, but this is a '98 Packard Bell.. yeah. I should've been hearing normal start-up sounds and seeing typical light flashes even without the graphics card in my main machine though, right? We can probably exclude the video card being the problem, I think. Keep suggestions and ideas coming guys, thanks!

 

[BadBigBen]

No, don't disregard the GFX Card and think it as being good/working... I had a PC that had similiar simptoms, and it would not beep nor POST because of the GFX CARD...

the problem turned out to be neither the GFX Card nor the MOBO, I just needed to reinsert the Card as it was off by a 1 or 2mm (one side was a bit elevated and did not make correct contact with the port)...


Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[firewolfrl]

if you can get an old PCI video card that would work great as a test card.


good luck

 

[JacksonVFR]

BadBigBen, thanks, I wasn't disregarding it. See, I listed off the components I tried and results I got above. Some are with the card, some without. I did remove and reinsert the graphics card and recived the same results. I don't necessarily mean the card is now working, I just mean it doesn't seem to be what's giving me "the problem".

I'll try to get a video card off of somebody, but if I can't or if it doesn't change anything, then what? How do I tell if it's my processer? Can I take off the heatsink and fan and what should I find? Any tips there guys?

 

[BadBigBen]

To figure out what the problem may be, you will need to breadboard it... This should be done only if you don't have anymore Warranty on the system, if you still have warranty, take it back to your supplier and have him take a look at it...

1.) remove the complete insides and place it on an insulating surface, such as a wooden desktop, or the box that came with the mobo...

2.) Only PSU (functioning), MoBo, CPU with HS-FAN, one stick of RAM (known to be good), and GFX-CARD, nothing else...

3.) Clear CMOS, by either taking out the BATT for at least 10min, or use the jumper...

4.) make sure that everything is seated correctly, escpecially the Power Conn from the PSU...

5.) Now try to start it by shortening the Power Conn PINs using a screwdriver... if it POSTS then you know that something else is causing the problem, ie, the PowerSwitch...



Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[paparazi]

By just having the bare minimum connected: CPU/Cooler/1 stick of ram/graphics card and PSU
You have fewer hardware items involved in the diagnosis.

Obviously with you stating that you had a PSU failure I made certain assumptions but i'm going to change direction a little here.

Fans and lights but without post or beeps certainly could still be your NEW power supply but it could also be your processor.
Of all the most common assembly mistakes on socket "A" motherboard, fitting the heatsink/fan unit the wrong way around is the most frequent.
If you look at the base of the heatsink/cooler there is a cut-out, recess that must be positioned so it is located over the raised cam box of the CPU socket (the bit with the writing on it) get this wrong and unfortunately there won't be proper thermal contact between the CPU and heatsink base.
This results either in instant CPU burn out or failure over several hours/days/or even weeks depending on thermal contact.
Substituting the CPU is the only way of checking but if you find that this is what you've done? then it's very likely the CPU is indeed at fault.
Picture 17 shows exactly what I mean
I cannot take credit for these images or assembly proceedure.

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...es?q=Fitting+Athlon+Cooler&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=

Martin



We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[paparazi]

Two things I forgot to add:
L&C are cheap generic power supplies (original supplied with basic case) I would strongly advise you purchase a quality unit (whatever the outcome) Antec, Enermax, Tagen, Jeantech, Fortron source, Channel Well, Zalman etc

And yes! if this motherboard has the extra 12V P4 connector then certainly use it.
Some newer motherboards won't post if this is left disconnected.
Martin


We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[JacksonVFR]

PROBLEM DISCOVERED! The processor!

Through some family members I was able to find a guy to borrow my computer and do some switch-o-rama for a half hour or so in which he found the culprit. Now it's on to me ordering a new processor, possibly an upgraded heatsink if need-be and a higher quality, higher wattage PSU. Thanks for your help guys!

If anybody wants to add anything, maybe you guys can tell me what you think went wrong. Failed processor and failed power supply together. Why?

 

[BadBigBen]

Hola, glad you found the culprit, albeit the most expensive part...

I can only guess, that when the PSU went out, a spike shot through the CPU rendering it useless... usually when a PSU dies, it takes either a HardDrive or the mobo with it, very rarely a CPU...



Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."