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Can I move objects to different containers in the eDirectory?

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200063

Technical User
Dec 22, 2004
38
AU
Hello, everyone. Merry Christmas and happy new year.
I am the new comer for this website and have some silly questions for those expertise. I wish I can join you and grow up together. :>

Well, I feel that there are lot of different objects in eDirectory which makes me very uncomfortable. I wonder whether I can move the objects (such as Storage Pool, Server, Volume or any questions mark objects) into specific container creadted by me. I don't know whether this movement will cause the problem just like I need change the login context if I move the user object from one container to another.
 
firstly i would try to identify the objects with ? as there shouldnt be any

personally i dont like moving servers , volumes etc but there is no real issues

before you move objects as well you need to think of your nds partitions
 
I'd be very carefull about moving those objects. You can create partitions in the tree for organizational purposes, but you'd need to talk with Marvin or Terry or one of the others gurus in this forum about that.

As far as question marks in your tree, is this the only server in your tree? If so, you need to research and fix (or remove) those.

If this is not the only server in your tree, the question marks can be caused by another server refering to objects the server you're on doesn't know about. I.E., I have two Novell servers in my tree, one is a file server and the other is dedicated to running Groupwise. If I look at the tree from the Groupwise server, I see lots of Groupwise objects. If I look at the tree from the file server, all those objects belonging to Groupwise simply have question marks.
 
Well, keep in mind that certain objects should stay in the same container as the server objects. So, if you move the server object, move the objects that go with it as well. The higher the Netware version, the more objects you'll have that go along with the server.

If you have question marks, that may be a corrupt object or it could be that you don't have the right snapin to manage it. Post some examples and we can probably tell you either way. Also important is the color of the question mark and which utilty you are seeing them in (NWADMIN or CONSOLEONE)

Also know that some objects can't be moved easily. One example is DNS objects. So before moving objects, you should make sure that it's okay to move them and find the proper procedure. This can be done by searching the TIDS. Make sure your tree is healthy before moving any objects.

Users and Groups are the easiest thing to move in NDS, but end users will have to have their workstations reconfigured to the new context.





Marvin Huffaker MCNE, CNE
Marvin Huffaker Consulting
 
Thank you, mates. I was a little superised that there are still a few guys stuck at this website during the holiday. :>
I'd like to give the Scenario to you.
It's a simple tree with only one server.
The Versions of some components are following:
Novell 6+sp3
eDirectory 8.6.2 SMP
ZENwork 3.2
No groupwise(not yet)
DNS/DHCP Management Console (on workstation)

I checked the question object again from Consoleone. I got black question mark with pick cube ^_^b
They are:
? ABC_com (Test domain name)
? RoleBasedService
? TestPool (Subnet Pool)
I think marvhuffaker is right. Maybe I didn't install the DHCP/DNS snapin on the server, actually, I don't know which I should install.

Plus some objects in the root of Organaziton:
Server
SYS volume
Admin_server volume (What's that volume for?)
Novell+Netware (Looks like a license object)
and some containers (which are ok for me)


Questions:
Are those objects safe to be moved?
I also have some other quetions about DHCP and creating a new user with template. I may open a new post for those questions.
Thank you mates. I know my questions are silly and simple. But they do confuse me a lot.
 
There are lots of ways to slice eDir. This is simply mine; read that "advice worth what you paid for it" ;)

Main thing IMHO to keep in mind: eDir is *not* a hierarchical file system. You don't want to tuck everything into a neat little box. You want to keep users and the resources they use together. This means when user John maps a drive, uses a printer etc the directory does not have to go looking for printers, servers, licenses, etc. It's all right there. And if you do this, it is very very fast.
If you must folder stuff, be sure to keep the things you look for in containers (OU) above you on the tree as the search algorigthm runs up the tree back to root. If the server is below you, you could be waiting a long time to map that drive bc the directory has to go all the way up, and then all the way back down. Not optimal..

Objects with a ? on them are simply not to be managed from that particular tool (C1 etc). DNS/DHCP get managed from the DNS/DHCP console (a seperate java app) or from iManager. Role Based services are managed from iManager. If C1 can't do it, theh objects are still "seen" but they have the "?" to tell you they can't be managed from there.

admin_server volume is the partition on the sys volume where the directory is kept I think. In any event you don't have to do anything with it.

hope that helps shine a little light on things.
 
Just Curious about the new tree structure you have made. It's one thing to move stuff around in the tree, but maybe it would be good to make sure your design is solid before you do it.

Marvin Huffaker MCNE, CNE
Marvin Huffaker Consulting
 
To ITsmyfault:
Those a great helps which like you are facing a sun directly without wearing a sunglasses. (Please picture the Australia's sunshine). haha, Thank you, mate.
I think you are right. eDir is "not" a hierachiacal system!! I still feel Novell guys' strange mind. Why don't they improve on some detail feature? There are so many funny bugs (such as forgeting to put CDROM.NLM in installation disk and put "*" into the wrong position, absence of all kinds of snap-in in C1 on client). Well, it brings a lot of trouble for first runner of user.

To Marvhuffaker:
Well, I think you are right. But for my first NW6 server, I have more interesting in facing all kinds of problem and situations. I also lack of experience on organzining. :>
 
200063: glad that made some sense!
Agree that Novell has some funny quirks and other odd bits. It is built from a different point of view than other systems (like mfst) and at first that can make it seem strange. But in time you come to appreciate what they did and why they did it.. there are truly some brilliant engineers there. It's even more amazing when you compare where Netware was (and is IMHO) vs Windows going back in time. Netware 5.1 had clustering up to 32 nodes at a time when Windows NT4 struggled to do 2. (and if you were smart you bought Veritas cluster X to make it work) AD still is not where eDir was years ago.. NDS was (and still is IMHO) miles ahead of AD. Netware does not have the SPOF that windows does in the registry, the OS can be stage loaded to fix problems when the occur - with windows a tricky problem generally means a re-install. No so with Novell. You can fix just about anything that goes wrong relatively quickly. (relative to other OS's and IME much faster than Windows)
One of the things msft did well in terms of sales was creating an os that my dog could install. all security settings wide open (where they existed) and all services running. You need know precious little to pop in a windows server and have it run.. and many admins have never met a default install they didn't like.. (part of why the net is such a mess IMHO!) Netware, like Unix, comes pretty tight and needs to be configured - which means you need to know what you're doing. This puts a lot of people off at first. You have to enable (or install) services; you have to give out file system rights.. etc. That can seem like a real chore to some, but in the end you are better off - IMHO. While there are books (literally) written about securing windows, there is little to do to secure Netware. The CERT doc is 5? pages and covers 3 issues.. 2 which are open source apps & have patches and 1 which is turning off SNMP (not unique to netware). By contrast, the NSA wrote up a set of manuals to secure Win2k that run over 1,000 pages IIRC.
And then you will still have a critical bug to patch nearly every week (if not more than 1!) Think about how you want to spend your time...

eDir can scale to encompass the entire known internet (literally 250 million objects or something like that..) it's no accident that 80% of the Fortune 500 use it along with various gov't (municipal, state and federal) Financial and large educational institutions.

one last thing.. Marvin has an excellent point about tree structure. Read up a bit if you have not already about the thinking behind how a tree is built. Build your tree with an eye to the future - maybe your firm is not in multiple cities of countries - but 5 years up the road? Plan ahead.
Ours goes root -->Tree(name of your tree)-->Organization (company)--> and then an OU for each office eg: Brisbane, Sidney, Perth.. nothing fancy.. just keeping it simple. We do OU's for each location because each office is connected via WAN links so we partition by OU. Oops.. what's a partition!
eDir - is the directory database

a replica - is a copy of the database - of your tree, or of a partition (part of your tree - see below). You want to have several replicas on your network (3 is good) so if one server goes, you have backup copies.. and any one copy can recreate the others in an emergency.

a partition - is a section of a replica. You can literally cut a chunk out and put just that chunk on another server. This is nice bc if that server is in a remote spot, you no longer have to sync the WHOLE thing - you only have to sync the partition. You can also add filtering to sync only certain attributes (maybe only user info..) You can partition at the OU level.. so if each remote location is an OU, you can have a partition for Sidney, another for Perth, etc.
Again, not the only or "right" way to do this.. just one way.
- have fun!
 
I agree with everything itsmyfault said..

However, I don't understand what you mean, 200063, when you say that eDir is not heirarchical(sp).. How can you say that? What do you mean, and what are you comparing this to?

Yes a lot of small single server networks have a flat tree, which is fine. But large companies trees are very structured and have a nice top-down design that fits their organization and is efficient and clean.

Marvin Huffaker MCNE, CNE
Marvin Huffaker Consulting
 
200063 said:
I was a little superised that there are still a few guys stuck at this website during the holiday.

I keep a small tent in my office...
 
Thank you guys.
I am stucking at problem with GW for a while and haven't got time to back this post. Thank you for your advise. The reason I said the eDIR was not heirarchical because I see there is something disorder in the eDir. Something like license, and other thing which located in the root of Organization defaultly. If eDir is fully heirarchical, they should be put into the decent place to clean the root area.
Anyway, I just don't like to see many different icons in the root.
To LawnBoy:
I am so so admiring you have this tent!! Because that was one of my dream to sleep besides the fastest computer and fastest network server. :>
Fellows, I get seirous problem on GW. Do u mind go to
to take a look?
 
Well... to answer your question about the licensing... You don't have to have it at the top. But the 'heirarchical' nature of eDir makes it so that the server searches UP the 'heirarchical' tree to find and allocate license resources. If you were to put it in a parallel container, then the license can't be allocated.

Not trying to argue, but if you understand edir, it's much more heirarchical than you think.


How did you come to inherit this terrible mess you have going on with netware and groupwise? Did you move your Groupwise objects cause you wanted a more 'heirarchical' structure?

Marvin Huffaker MCNE, CNE
Marvin Huffaker Consulting
 
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