Avaya IP Office 2

[AMDGB]

Hi

Looking for some help. Looking to open a new office in the UK 200 miles from main sites.

I am considering IP phones as a solution (concerned about packet loss over distance) but have heard of a new Avaya product called IP office (new network alchemy). I am having trouble getting non biased info, however have heard that the IP office is not a very good platform.

Is anybody using one and can let me know if its a good product?

Thanks

 

[scottyjohn]

Our organisation is currently looking at IP Office as a potential solution for retail shops. Ive had the Avaya presentation about how good it is and on paper it does look pretty impressive with regard to the features it provides. I havent spoken to anyone using it though and I would also like to hear any "unbiased" feedback. Do you have existing Avaya kit in your current sites? John

http://www.eagle-i.co.uk

 

[AMDGB]

We are also looking at this over frame relay for our retail shops...

Our existing Avaya kit is a R9.5 G3r over multiple sites, several IP600's for regional offices. All networked with either ATM or IP.

 

[nknook]

Hello guys,

Let me start by saying I work for Avaya, so I might not be completely "unbiased", however I'll be as honest as I can be without getting fired .

I've been involved with IP Office since the launch of the product here in Holland last Januari. As far as I can tell, the product is stable, and performs well. In the first months there have been minor issue's, but they are all fixed now (no doubt there are still some, but no show-stoppers as far as I know of, and they are all documented on the BusinessPartner website, with fixes if available).

Don't expect a mini-Definity, though, there are some things quite different, and also the positioning is very different. And even though everything is included (RAS, Firewall, DHCP, router etc etc) you cannot compare it to a dedicated Firewall, DHCP server or router, in most cases it will suffice, but there are situations in which you will want dedicated equipment for (one of) those tasks.

Another thing is the terminals (stations), you can connect/use both INDeX and Definity stations, and they work fine, but on some area's a little different then on the native platform (but this is not necessarily negative, f.i. the redial button on 64xx stations is very nice, it gives you a list of your calls, and you can choose which one to redial, I like it a lot).
You can network it with Definity through an H.323 trunk (optionally you can run QSIG over this H.323 trunk, but I'm not sure if this is GA yet on the IP Office). Keep in mind that you need a VCM (like the TN2302 on Definity) module for that, and those are not cheep.

I think the bottom line is that if you set your expectations right, it is a very nice solution, but you'll have to be honest with yourself: if what you really need/want is a Definity, you have to get a Definity, not an IP Office.

Another advice for AMDGW: you can also choose to install a MV G700/S8300 media-gateway/server on the remote location. You can network it through IP-QSIG trunks with the main switch, and when (if) you upgrade the main switch to MultiVantage later, it can fully integrate with it as a node (sort of EPN), with survivability. If your plan/wish is to eventually create a single distributed switch, this is the way to go.

Cheers,
Nico

 

[G van Hamburg]

We've installed several IP Office systems and eveything went real smooth.

The only thing is that it's not like implementing an EPN. It's a seperate device with it's own processor. You can use Q-sig between the PBX's but remember that you need RTU for that.

If you're looking for IP-connected remote solutions and they need to be integrated, look for the Multi vantage solutions. Plan your work............Work your plan

 

[telcoguy]

Just one note;
If you go the IP S8300 route, realize that it is suppose to work transparently, only the software to run a callcenter /extend callcenter routing on these, will only be released early next year.
So great stuff is happening, but little pieces still miss here and there.
I run voice over IP for quite a while now between two definities,and I must admit the quality is way better than I expected it to be at first.
In general the quality is somewhere in between GSM quality and almost no difference.(if you don't tell people most won't notice)
Make sure you use network switches/routers along the route that are capable of handling QOS settings.

Hope this helps

Rob

 

[nknook]

Telcoguy, you are correct about the callcenter on S8300, it is not yet available. But you can use this workaround to bypass that problem (well in most cases anyway):

Use IP agents on the remote location, but let those IP agents register on the main switch in dual-connect mode, entering their local (S8300) extension as the voice-path. This has also advantages with regard to measurements (no need for a seperate ACD on the CMS), because the agents are part of the main callcenter. A disadvantage would be if you have incoming lines to those callcenter-agents on the remote location, you would then have to route those back to the main switch (but QSIG rerouting will prevent multiple call-paths, so it's not that bad).

Cheers,
Nico

 

[scottyjohn]

Good info guys. On a related note we are looking at upgrading our hub site to S8700 from TDM Definity. Whats the scoop on this kit? Is it as good as they say it is? I like the way that we can keep all the hardware in our existing switch and I belive turn it into an MCC Media Gateway. We are being forced to look at an upgrade due to the switch being direct connect and the TDM bus limitation for concurrent calls. We were looking at upgrading to Centre Stage and I asked the question at an Avaya sales meeting, if this move to server would overcome this TDM bus bottleneck. They said it would'nt but there was a way round it. can anyone elaborate on how this would be achieved? John

http://www.eagle-i.co.uk

 

[G van Hamburg]

Perhaps I can.

If you use direct connect, the maximum amount of concurrent calls between PN's are 242.

Migrating to S8700 won't change that because the processor will be removed from the PPN and an IPSI card will be placed in that PN. The new name of that PN will be "gateway".

By placing IPSI cards in the other PN's as well, you'll bypass the TDM bus and therefor increase the amount of maximum calls.

Plan your work............Work your plan

 

[nknook]

By hub site, do you mean the main or remote location (I suspect main, but just to be sure)?

If you do upgrade to S8700 MultiVantage, I would definitely choose the G700/S8300 combination for the remote location (except of course when there's only a few stations). You are able to re-use most existing hardware, however X.25 is not available on MV, so this could impact CMS and DCS and so on. Your MCC/SCC carriers can be reused as media-gateways. Ask your account-team for advise.

The way around you are talking about refers (I think) to "splitting-up" EPN's, for instance, if you currently have a MCC EPN, it is possible to split it into two logical EPN's (in one MCC cabinet), thus doubling the TDM capacity per MCC. With S8700/MultiVantage it will eventually be possible to make each carrier in a MCC a seperate EPN (so you'll have 5 EPN's in one MCC), however this is not yet possible.

Cheers,
Nico

 

[scottyjohn]

Hi guys,
I was under the impression that there were 483 available time slots on the TDM bus and given that some of those slots are taken up with system and other functions the realsitic maximum concurrent call load was around the 420 mark before blockage would occur. Is that not the case? Also would that mean that going over to MV would make our CMS box redundant? Also what is an IPSI card? John

http://www.eagle-i.co.uk

 

[G van Hamburg]

You're correct about the time slots but each call takes two time slots. The max amount of calls through fiber is 383.
The max per/between EPN's is 242 therefor fiber is non-blocking.

The IPSI card provides connectivity between the S8700 server and the Media Gateway.

If you upgrade to S8700 you'll get two S8700 servers, one Cajun Switch (forgot the type) and two UPS systems. So in a way your CMS will be redundant. Plan your work............Work your plan

 

[nknook]

Your assumption is right, there are 512 time slots (some docs say 484 + 23B + 1D, not sure what this means exactly), of which some are used by the system and tones, which leaves with about 420 for call processing (the exact number may vary depending on your config, and would require a more indepth investigation).

I'm not sure what you mean by making your CMS box redundant, your CMS doesn't change (at least not necessarily), it's still the same box.
An IPSI card is used to connect the media-gateway (MCC or SCC or G600) to the media server (the S8700), and stands for IP Server Interface.

Cheers,
Nico

 

[nknook]

Brandaris is right (damn I hate to say that ), I forgot the 2 slots per call part.

Plan your plan...........Work your work

 

[scottyjohn]

Sorry to be a pain but why does it take 2 slots per call? Im a bit confused! We have a G3r which is fully duplicated with 1PPN and 2EPNs. The EPNs are connected by duplicated fiber. John

http://www.eagle-i.co.uk

 

[G van Hamburg]

I cannot make drawings on this right now but 1 timeslot goes from the first to second one, and the other one goes the other way around.

If you have one PPN with two EPN's (it doesn't matter if it's crititcal or not) you still have the 242 calls.

I don't want to make you afraid but when you have two EPN's one call can use even more time slots.

Pretend this: A call setup from one of the EPN's seizes a trunk located on the PPN or the other EPN.

But if you do a "list con all" you'll see that the system is embalanced. So the first digital card goes for example in 1b01 the second in 02b01, the third in 03b01 etc.

This also goes for the DS1.

If you never have problems just give it a rest. If you do have problems, another EPN will help you out or let your businesspartner reconfigure the switch.

In that case you will not have to go to a CSS which costs a lot of mony.

To save time slots, make sure that the cards are inserted in a smart way.

Plan your work............Work your plan

 

[scottyjohn]

Thanks Brandaris,
Ive been trying to get an answer on this for some time and you have helped a lot! I have a 600 seat call centre which at the moment is running at about half capacity but they are going to bring in extra business to fill the place up and I was just concerned that we would hit a wall along the way. John

http://www.eagle-i.co.uk

 

[G van Hamburg]

You're welcome!! Plan your work............Work your plan