Any IE 5 users out there?

[LEICJDN1]

Further to my previous thread (Site not good in Netscape)..

My site:

http://www.forpaws.me.uk

now looks fine in IE 6, NS 7.0, Opera and Mozilla (thanks to MrBelfry).

However, a friend has previewed in IE 5 and aparrently the main content text is not positioned correctly and hides behind the left menu.

Are there any other IE 5 users out there who can confirm this?

I have looked in IE 5.5 and all was fine. Is there a known issue with IE 5.

If the problem is confirmed I can post the CSS code.

Thanks in advance,

JDN

 

[ecobb]

This depends on your screen resolution/montior size. I have a laptop with resolution 1600x1200, and when I check it out the site looks fine. But when I shrink the browser window or view it on an 800x600 15in. monitor then the text is behind the menu. Try changing the resolution on your computer and looking at it in your other browsers, you'll probably get the same thing on most of them as well.

Hope this helps.

 

[MrBelfry]

I can confirm that the problem does occur in IE5. It even occurs when I view it at different resolutions.

Your possible solutions are:
1. Tell your friend to use a browser from this century.
2. Change the left attribute to a margin thingy ie margin-left: 255px;
3.

I think this may be a problem with IE5 not supporting CSS properly. I think IE5.5 had a lot of fixes. If it works in IE5.5 but not 5 then I would guess this is the problem.

You question once again highlights the difficulty in designing sites for every possible platform/browser. Someone needs to decide a cut-off date ie as from july 22nd we will no longer design sites by incorrectly applying technology. Or something like this

MrBelfry

 

[LEICJDN1]

Thanks again!

My first suggestion was that my friend visited microsoft.com!

It does indeed seem that IE 5 is the problem as IE5.5 is OK. Resolution independent as you say.

Will try the margin setting.

If that doesn't work then may just say 'oh well' and hope that not too many visitors still have IE 5.

JDN

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

Well yes...

But this also underscores the need to understand that web pages are not print pages.

People try too hard to make web pages look like printed pages or application pages, where there's tremendous control over every leetle-bitty-teensy-weeny aspect, but in a web page, you'll be 27.635 times happier if you shake off this attitude.

98% of the time, a well-designed web page will be usable under damn near every browser and every version of that browser. Run a site under Lynx and it should be useable. It may not be pretty, but it should be useable (anyone doubting this needs to read

http://www.fixingyourwebsite.com/googleisgod.html

three times).

Yes, there is technology that is unsupported by older browsers, but any page designer worth a paycheck will know that if they design and build the page well, it will degrade gracefully and still be perfectly useable.

Cheers,


Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[LEICJDN1]

yeah, I can see you point. However, I simply set out to design a simple, clean website that looks OK and has minimal fuss and no scrolling through pages and pages of text.

Using CSS I achieved this in IE 6. My problems arose when I then cross checked the site.

As this is my first site, then I am sure the design is not wonderful, but I could not really come up with a simpler design than one menu bar, a header title and a content area.

Does my design problem lie with using CSS? Are you suggesting I should not use CSS and make it even more 'simple' ? I ask that in reference to your '98% of well designed websites...'

Perhaps I am just missing the whole 'good design' thingy. I think my site looks OK and functions OK. However, I would like to make it cross browser compatible as well.

Confused now..

JDN

 

[MrBelfry]

Correct me if I'm wrong Edward, I am not trying to put words into your mouth but what I think your saying is that the pursuit of pixel perfect placement is not good.

My own thoughts on this are that if I can read the page in any browser thats good enough for me. I have a target platform that I aim for (PC and IE because this seems to be the most prominant platform) however I am not a great visual designer so I'm not so concerned with having a fancy title bar or pixel perfect page elements.

I would spend an age (and would fail) trying to get my pages to look exactly the same across every platform and really can't be bothered. If a page is readable in the latest versions of IE, Opera, Netscape, Mozilla then I am happy. If I've got a major problem (like my navigation disappearing or my content being obscured) in any of those browser going back another version then I'll try and correct it if I can.

blah blah blah
blah blah blah
blah blah blah

However there will come a time when supporting a certain technology (such as CSS) means alienating some people who still use NS4.

MrBelfry

 

[LEICJDN1]

I agree with MrBelfry. Although I am not striving for pixel perfect reproducibility across all browsers I would at least like the site to be viewable and functional in as many as possible.

Have now stumbled across the 'box model hack' which allows different settings for IE 5 and IE 6 within your css and this now means my site can be viewed in those with IE 5, although it is not 'perfect'. There are also some flaws when viewed in Opera but it works.

Have not tried in Lynx but the Googleisgod comments are intriguing.

Happy now that site appears at least usable in most browsers - am not going back any further because I do not have the will!

Thanks for everyone's help.

JDN

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

MrBelfry: ...what I think your saying is that the pursuit of pixel perfect placement is not good.

It is an exercise in frustration. For some folks, that sort of thing is good.

JDN, a site can be perfectly useable, yet not look the same and that's okay. If you're using CSS to do your layout then the simplest thing to do to see how your site will render in a browser without CSS support is to temporarily rename your .css file.

If you can still read the site, and still navigate via the links, then chances are you'll be fine.

<h1>Welcome to my page</h1>
<h3>Pictures of my garden gnome collection</h3>
<span class=&quot;HeIsOfTheBody&quot;>
<p><img src=&quot;gnome0000001.jpg&quot; height=&quot;123&quot; width=&quot;78&quot; alt=&quot;My first garden gnome&quot;></img>Lookit!  Garden gnomes!</p>
</span>

will look just fine, even if the browser can't recognize or find your CSS file, where you define special crazy attributes for the h1, h3, p, and HeIsOfTheBody tags.

Cheers,


Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door