A fun paragraph 1

[Thadeus]

This is from the folks at Political Compass.

When are you guys gonna learn to spell ?
This grievance comes from those who aren't aware that British and American spellings sometimes differ.

We've been at the centre of some rancour, but we're not going to take offence or harbour any grievances. The catalogue of complaints won't colour this organisation's programme. It's a grey area anyway. And we don't want to labour the point.

~Thadeus

 

[tsdragon]

I can verify that, at least in California back in the 60's and 70's, you were required to take at least 3 years of foreign language in high-school (and I took two years in junior high). Also, depending up the degree you want, you may be required to take more in college (at the time, a degree in Chemistry required several semesters of German, Latin or Russian). I took two years of Spanish in grades 6 and 7, three years of German in grades 10, 11, and 12, and three semesters of German in college before I dropped out. I got straight A's in every foreign language class I took. And yet, I could not speak more than a few coherent sentences in either of those two languages if my life depended upon it. I can understand a little more than I can speak, but probably not enough to get by.

The major reason for that is that I have had little or no reason to speak German in the 30-some years since I took it, and since I left Southern California 20-some years ago I've had little reason to speak Spanish either. As the saying goes: "Use it or lose it." Speakers of English-as-a-second-language tend to get a lot more practice using their English that we do using whatever second language we learn here in the US. I don't condone that - just point it out.


Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.

 

[SantaMufasa]

Stella,

Absolutely !!! If you live in the US and wish to identify yourself as an American, then regardless of where you came from, you are an American. To a large degree, being an "American" is a state of mind, regardless of your citizenship. I know many who are Americans "by state-of-mind", not "by birth" and not by "by citizenship".

You, Stella, and your family, and Tracey represent commendable examples of the positive attitudes toward multi-linguistics that I hope someday will be the norm in the US, rather than the exception.

BTW, Tracey, I both attended and graduated high school in California in 1970. At that time, taking a foreign language to graduate was not an absolute. One could "maneuver" the system and even go to college without taking a foreign language, by taking certain substitute disciplines.

Cheers,

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)

http://www.dasages.com

Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.

 

[SilentAiche]

Stella,

If I may chime in here. I agree that most of the world seems to teach its children foreign languages better than the U.S. does. I studied French in high school and college, but still can't get very far beyond telling a Frenchman my name. Like it or not, English, as a language, has been adopted universally. Just ask the airline industry.

My family, of mostly Scottish ancestry, has been in the U.S. since before there was a U.S. No, we don't necessarily learn everybody else's languages. I guess part of it is indeed arrogance (y'all learn our stuff!) and, perhaps, there is the thought of "Why bother?"

I truly don't know the answers. I just wish I had studied Spanish instead of French, so I could talk to my fellow grocery shoppers...

Tim

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[KenCunningham]

Now, where are the Quebecois when you need them? I'm sure they'd have an interesting slant on where this discussion has been/is going. Any out there? Back to natter, the general Brit interpretation is to chat, possibly over the garden fence. However, I have also known it used (in Yorkshire) as a substitute for worry or more specifically nag (not in the equine sense you understand).

 

[Thadeus]

SantaMufasa,
I take offense to you handing out commendations to some and making blanket generalizations about others.

I took two years of German in High School... Still haven't bumped into a German in Philly suburbs since 1985. I also haven't met another person that doesn't speak English (of whatever variety).

Explain to me why this makes me arrogant?

In college I attempted to learn American Sign Language. Again, since being in the halls of academia, I haven't bumped into a single speaker of ASL. This is not say that I haven't seen deaf people speaking, just that they were strangers I wouldn't have spoken with anyways.

When you live in France and you holiday in England and Switzerland, it makes sense to learn other languages. When I need a job and it requires me to learn a new programming language, I do. This is not commendable, it is necessary. So when I move to a new country and it requires that I interact with the local non-English speaking population, I will learn the language. Why make the effort until then?

~Thadeus

 

[tsdragon]

So when I move to a new country and it requires that I interact with the local non-English speaking population, I will learn the language. Why make the effort until then?

It is never a bad thing to learn something new. Learning a new language is interesting for the other things you learn along the way. Things such as the origins of words based on that language, why some words mean certain things or are pronounced certain ways, and something about the culture and peoples who speak the language. These alone are good reasons to learn a new language, or at least "dabble" in learning one. I may not speak German, but I can still remember and understand enough of it that it can come in very handy now and then. You might be surprised at how often. I've even run into German-speaking people once or twice. I was not able to converse, but I was able to understand a bit here and there, and respond with a word or two. Even that little bit seemed to be appreciated. I guess because I lived in DC, the home of Galludet University, I ran into more than the average person, but I've been around dozens of ASL-speaking persons too (I even ended up tending bar at one of their functions at a hotel I worked at). I don't speak ASL, but I asked one of the speaking persons to show me a few words, so I could at least say "Thank You" when someone tipped me.

Knowledge is never wasted.


Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.

 

[Thadeus]

Knowledge may not be wasted, but time can be... And that is my point.

I could also study "collision theory" regarding variables changing the rate of reactions [primarily in chemicals I believe].... I'm not purporting that no one should, just that the knowledge doesn't hold specific relevance to my daily life.

I could learn every language in the world. Would it make me a better person? doubtful, I'd be studying every single day. My wife and children would surely suffer from my not having a job. In fact, I probably wouldn't have time to speak with native speakers of the languages because I'd be busy learning how to ask where the bathroom is...

My point was that I have no reason to learn another language living here in the suburbs of Philly... By the same token, I have no expectations that a small crop farmer in Bolivia will speak English [or Japanese].

My point was not that learning another language has nothing to offer.

~Thadeus

 

[columb]

To learn another language is to gain another soul

Columb Healy

 

[CajunCenturion]

Charlemagne ~800 CE


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[CajunCenturion]

While looking up the author of columb's quote, I came across this one, pertitnent to this discussion:

Every American child should grow up knowing a second language, preferably English. ~Mignon McLaughlin, The Neurotic's Notebook, 1960

Good Luck
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To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
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[earthandfire]

Brilliant

 

[SantaMufasa]

Thadeus,

I take offense to you handing out commendations to some and making blanket generalizations about others.

Please do not take offense where no offence is intended. The only reason that I didn't "hand out a commendation" to you directly is because I was not aware of your multi-linguistic skills. So, to correct my oversight, all of those of you Americans (and non-Americans) who have invested the time into learning a second language (whether it is ASL, ISL, or a vocalised language), please accept my kudos to you. You are the exceptions that disprove the rule.

And on the topic of why learn a language that you might not use? Ask my brother that is a Latin teacher. He believes that learning Latin (although spoken only in traditional Roman Catholic religious circles), seems to fertilise the grey matter and make us better at understanding our first language. I know that my speaking Spanish nearly as well as I speak English has made my neurons spark faster and realise that English is one of the screwiest language on the face of the Earth.

So, when I make generalisations about Americans' relative "linguistic laziness", it doesn't apply to those to which it doesn't apply...And you know who you are And of course, as always, my generalisations, by definition, have no one specific in mind...That's why they are called "generalisations". That's why I say, "Please don't take offence where none was intended."

And in fact, most of my fellow Utahns speak English as a Second Language since their first language is a rather strange linguistic brew that we fondly call "Utahnics".

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)

http://www.dasages.com

Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.

 

[Volk359]

seems to fertilise the grey matter

My wife is a linguist and the research she's done shows that the reason why children learn languages at a faster rate and retain it better then adults do is they have more neurons and it's a matter of use it or lose it. If the neurons aren't used they degenerate making it more and more difficult to learn or retain memory as you get older.

Also, children who learn at least one second language consistently have higher math scores and tend to stay out of trouble more than those who only know one language.

Our kids are bi-lingual in English and Russian. We've started them on Chinese and Spanish and they're picking it up real fast.

 

[SantaMufasa]

Volk,

Amen !!! Point very well taken.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)

http://www.dasages.com

Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.