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Avaya....What is going to happen?

Avaya....What is going to happen?

(OP)
Avaya filed Chapter 11 yesterday. Wonder what is going to happen? I think it hurt Avaya buying Nortel. Nortel was old TDM platform and the BCM was pretty much a flop especially the BCM 50. Avaya had too many platforms to keep up kind of like GM with car brands.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

You are entitled to your opinion on what you consider a crappy Nortel product. Would be nice if you could explain what was a flop about the BCM and Nortel in general? Please do.

Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant
www.joetheucxguy.com

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Yes I am interested you came to that decision of being a flop as well being it made it past 12 years and was only stopped due to Avaya not wanting 2 products of the same nature.

Like any Bankruptcy assets are sold off, depending whom buys what will determine it's future how ever there is restructuring in this case:
http://fortune.com/2017/01/19/avaya-bankruptcy/










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Toronto, CAN

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

this has been coming for months, they are restructuring as a software company. My guess is they will kill the IPO and move to server only edition. If you looked at their website over the past year or so they killed links to SMB. They just put stuff back recently. They'll probably let hosted space take all the SMB market share as thats where that is heading anyway. Id guess they'll look to stay competitive in the enterprise space like Skype, but i just can't see any CIOs of enterprise companies investing their telecommunications in a company that just filed chapter 11.

Avaya's niche was the SMB market with cisco holding the advantage with enterprise. I just don't see how they could restructure appropriately in time while simultaneously going up against other platforms. Eventually money runs out and this is what happens.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

(OP)
Hey all I'm saying is Avaya spent almost 1 billion dollars on what? They still have to support BCM and Option 81/CS1000...but still have their own platform Aura and IPO to worry about. They wasted 1 billion dollars on getting a customer base they could have got any way. The could have spent that billion on RD against Cisco and Shoretel and been much better off than trying to keep Nortel platforms going.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

BCM support ended in 2015 (2018 if you have a contract with Avaya direct) and I am guessing samish with Option XX.

Who's customer data base did they buy for a bill?

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RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

(OP)
Who's customer data base did they buy for a bill?......Exactly!!! Made no sense to buy Nortel for a 1000 million dollars

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?


Avaya purchased Nortels assets from the Enterprise division for $900M and probably what you are referring too in that case.

That's a tough one to call on what went wrong but probably a lot lol.
Nortel was strong in the Enterprise but they dabbled in too many other things as well bad management... who did not even realize they were in trouble.

Kinda seems like Avaya is following suit.





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www.curlycord.com
Toronto, CAN

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

The founders of Western Electric must be spinning in their graves. spin2

I love2 "FEATURE 00"
http://dexman.webs.com/

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Avaya did not know what it bought. They just wanted customers. Products were brought into Aura with cs1k 7.5 and higher and BCM/SRG 6.0 all Avaya branded and code changed to work with SIP interop of Aura. Data portfolio was like a foreign language to Avaya offices.
which if anybody remembers the MCS5100 (we used all the time at Nortel)it ran circles around Session Manager. and was on the market in 2000. All products were good both Avaya & Nortel, problem became customers, partners and even Avaya kept them in silos. It became a turf war of who bought who and sales comfort zones (lack of knowledge)
anyway Avaya is no new comer to restructure and lay off. They have visited several times and were already $6B in debt when won the stalking horse bid on Nortel. Probably was bad decision 20/20 hind sight. sales force & sales design struggled to understand their own road maps. would you want to work there now?

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

State Governments,small towns and utilities still use Centrex lines and Norstar key system for communications. The Norstar just keeps working and the state government contracts control Centrex line cost. ATA devices on VoIP systems just are not reliable on fire or security systems, faxes or telemetry modems.

RKDavis Wilmington,NC
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert"ken"davis

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

^ RKdavis, i beg to differ. We have many municipalities and about 10-15 in the pipeline looking to move over. Almost all use regular cable internet with cellular 4g backup.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

I work on PSAP's where the M7310 set trunk appearances are emulated on a touch screen monitors. Each 911 console has a Norstar intercom DN. I experience a lot of buildings where inside you lucky to get 1X cell signal. I know there are cellular modems to replace analog lines but it not always practical. Cable DTA modems do not hold up well in harsh environments.

RKDavis Wilmington,NC
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert"ken"davis

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

The cellular backup is tied the firewall not individual desktop. It's tested before installation for coverage. I've never seen an implementation where that wasn't a reliable backup. Plus that's all it is, a backup.

Landlines will be dead in 5 years, maybe less

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

I'm not sure about POTS dying off within 5 years as there are places where LECs do not offer upgraded service and have no cable alternative.

The Church I attend is a prime example. The two cable companies that serve the town have no conduits on our side of the street and Verizon has not installed any FiOS fiber.

We are limited to Verizon copper and 7 down 768 up DSL service. With this level of data service, there is no way I would broach the idea of switching to a service like Vonage.

The only way we're going to get something other than traditional POTS is if Verizon actually goes through and starts to deliver services OTA because it...and the cable companies...refuse to service our building properly.



I love2 "FEATURE 00"
http://dexman.webs.com/

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

VoIP-info.org projects only 6% of phone service will be landline by end of 2018. That's next year. Ask any Verizon tech they'll tell you the same. If you cannot see writing on the wall brother I don't know what to tell you.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Quote:


Nortel was strong in the Enterprise but they dabbled in too many other things as well bad management... who did not even realize they were in trouble.

Kinda seems like Avaya is following suit.
Probably because they seemed to adopt a lot of (IMHO BAD) Nortel working practices - I guess no one bothered to ask why Nortel were in a position to be purchased in the 1st place.


Do things on the cheap & it will cost you dear

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Phoneguy, why don't you give the three largest cities in the nation a phone call sometime and tell them they are screwed. Someone better get the message across to Los Angeles, Chicago and New York City, all which use extensive amounts of Nortel/GenBand Centrex equipment for their police, fire and city services.

Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant
www.joetheucxguy.com

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Not saying they don't use it now, saying they will likely change in the near future. FUD

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

It's not like I'm inventing these statistics they are out there for everyone

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

I wasn't saying that to be mean, I was serious. They aren't thinking about the future, they are big and corrupt and full of old business practices. Man lighten up dude.

Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant
www.joetheucxguy.com

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Seriously, wasn't trying to offend you.

Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant
www.joetheucxguy.com

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

VoIP-info.org projects only 6% of phone service will be landline by end of 2018. That's next year. Ask any Verizon tech they'll tell you the same. If you cannot see writing on the wall brother I don't know what to tell you.

Verizon, at&t, Fairpoint and others are not going to simply cut power to their legacy switches and walk away. LECs may consolidate Central Office voice switching duties and have regional "superswitches" (in the same vein as tandem switches) to provide D.T. to remaining subscribers, but to simply pull the plug....not happening anytime soon.

This topic has gone way off course. We could open another one to continue discussing the future of TDM communications.

I love2 "FEATURE 00"
http://dexman.webs.com/

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Yes, I am sorry, Avaya (original topic) doesn't even support the Centrex switches of those big Emergency operations systems....it's Genband.

Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant
www.joetheucxguy.com

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

"Probably because they seemed to adopt a lot of (IMHO BAD) Nortel working practices"

Avaya was it's own company and I don't think they had any intention of adapting anything

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www.curlycord.com
Toronto, CAN

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

i wasnt offended LOL, i take everything on the chin even if you wanted to offend =)

Im just saying those are the statistics.

And yes we did get quite off topic

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

I was having great difficulty in following Sto933's post and point so just in case I was not alone.

@Sto933 - I can tell by your stats that you don't post very much even if you have been around since 2007. If you copy a users name, you are actually copying a link to their data. I always type in the name to avoid this.

Also, the Preview button can show you issues like this before you Submit.

I believe you meant to post the following:

Quote (Phoneguy610)

VoIP-info.org projects only 6% of phone service will be landline by end of 2018

Quote (Phoneguy610)

It's not like I'm inventing these statistics they are out there for everyone

Just few posts - and "projects" are already "statistics". Are we already in 2018?

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Quote (kwbMitel)

@Sto933 - I can tell by your stats that you don't post very much even if you have been around since 2007. If you copy a users name, you are actually copying a link to their data. I always type in the name to avoid this.
@kwbMitel - I can tell by your stats that you post very much.
Thanks, buddy, for a tip. Now my post looks like I wanted it to look.
Did not mean to offend anybody but I checked at VoIP-info.org and did not find that figures.
OK it's already off topic, sorry guys.



RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Sorry, but quoting someone's predictions made in 2010 about the percentage of landlines that will be in use by the year 2018 is questionable at best.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

this artice is from february 10th of this year...

no youre right landlines are the future and voip is just a gimmick! =)

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

and that someone making that prediction was the CDC lol

guys cmon how do you not see how this is trending

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

But isn't VOIP landline? The only true non land line is cell phones. I can't tell you enough how my fiance razzes me about why Avaya is bankrupt. She says it's because everyone just uses their cell phones. She says their 90 person office is going to shed their Avaya switch and go with ATT cell phones next year. She says all of her clients are doing the same thing. But yet on the other end, I have people asking me, the ultimate loser dork who loves phones, to install phone systems in their businesses. Just signed on a brewery, just installed a system at a design office, and next at a classic Chicago route 66 diner coming up.

Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant
www.joetheucxguy.com

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

personally, i believe the industry is headed to no hardware. i think in 2-3 years buying a phone system will be purely logging into a web portal or downloading a plugin for your web browser that you can make and receive calls from.


RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

"this artice is from february 10th of this year..."
Yes, you used an article from Feb 10 2017 that states "just the facts" and one of these facts is that "Experts project that by the end of the year 2018 only 6 percent of the U.S. population will still be using the traditional landline phone network". Correctly, the statement in that article should have been that "experts from CDC !!! predicted something like that back in 2010". Am I really wrong questioning the credibility of such an article?

Being involved with VoIP since 1999, I've heard way too many predictions about the expected VoIP growth and/or POTS disappearance in the next "single digit" years. I am not suggesting these changes are not happening - just that the pace has been slower than all such overly optimistic predictions claimed. I am looking forward to a future with no analog landlines - but I am not sure if I'll live that long. wink

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Here is my opinion

VoIP can use both Landline(POTs,DSL,IDSN,Cable,Fibre) and Cellular... and Satellite somewhat.

Fibre/Fiber is being installed everywhere now and IS considered a landline.

Landline will still consist of Broadband over copper telephone wires or Cable TV copper of Fiber Optics.

It is the Landline Telephone and the Copper side (POT's) of the Landline that is becoming extinct....and soon Cable.

We will one day be Fiber, Cellular and Satellite (2way)

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RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

1999-2010 internet speeds were not sufficient in most places for quality VOIP delivered to businesses. 100 mbps internet is becoming the standard, hence the mass exodus from traditional POTS to voip services.

Also just came across this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/chaos-at-tosh...

Obviously not just their PBX division, but thats two major PBX players declaring bankruptcy in 2 months.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

There are places where 100 meg and higher is still not available. RBOCs still look to see if their invested capital to provide high speed Internet can be recouped quickly. In areas where utilities are underground, and, most of the businesses are small scale "mom & pop" stores with no alternatives present, the choices would be limited to DSL, T1 or bonded T1s.

I love2 "FEATURE 00"
http://dexman.webs.com/

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

We are in NJ and do most of our business in NJ, CA, NY, and PA. I run into businesses that cannot get at least cable at a rate of about 1:50. Maybe our territories are just spoil but that's what I see everyday.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Holy Crap,

It's weird, I have seen now that the Norstar and BCM line, many retailers are going back to using the Toshiba Strata and CIX switches....I actually saw a local Marianos rip out a Nortel BCM and replace with a Toshiba system with DK Strata phones from the early 2000s. I always thought Toshiba was a gentle quiet giant.

Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant
www.joetheucxguy.com

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

I type too fast....

I meant to say I have seen now that the Norstar and BCM line are gone....

Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant
www.joetheucxguy.com

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Yea its not the PBX side thats killing them (although we used to be a toshiba dealer, their hosted platform was a joke and their CIX system was 10 years behind everything else, although it was stable) but a bad investment in nuclear that is going to liquidate the entire company.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Toshiba's Strata phones make the weirdest and most annoying sound when they are hung up over a paging system....sounds like a suction noise....and at Mariano's they never, ever use the Call Release button.

Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant
www.joetheucxguy.com

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

This is a very interesting discussion and even more interesting theories here from you guys. I heard some of these from Avaya's move, too. Quite interested on what exactly they would do. I just wish that it would do more good than harm to users like us because these upgrades or changes can be a headache sometimes.

Patrick Hogan
www.tenfold.com

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

I just saw their end of sale on the T series sets.....I know it's from August, but sure made me angry.

Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant
www.joetheucxguy.com

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

I'm an Avaya dealer and have been since Lucent Technologies was spun off from AT&T. Before that I sold AT&T-branded systems through AT&T VARs.

Avaya's problems hurt me and my crew. I am furious that competitors are having such a gleeful time disparaging the company, and by extension, dealers like me. They have been an icon of American technology for more than 100 years.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

LOL we were an avaya dealer too. We saw the writing on the wall years ago and evolved. That's what being in the technology business is all about, evolve and adapt or die off like the rest of them. Don't take your poor business decision out on me. I've posted my opinion and backed it up with sources as I always have. If you choose to ignore them and ride a dying company that's your choice, can't say I didn't try.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

lets not get personal guys, keep it civil.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

You're right =)

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

thanks BIS
appreciate the info

Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME)


"This is the end of the world, make sure to buy your T-shirt before it is too late"
Original expression of my daughter

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Looks like a mess to me.....Avaya no longer owns anything of itself.

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www.curlycord.com
Toronto, CAN

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

The company's curse was buying Nortel.
AV was taken into an LBO before the financial crisis and had ZERO Debt. Why did PE firms buy them out, if there was no need to restructure them a Nortel buyout was NEVER in the cards, is beyond me.
They buy Nortel and technical people in the C-suite who had no compliance and business background got the company into debt.
The maker of M1 and Norstar switches was the same company that had cooked the books in the early 2000s
The people behind the DMS also tried that "reverse stock split" and it got them nowhere.
I have inside sources that dating back Avaya Red<Lucent, there were shenanigans, but the company survived before the NES buyout.

It's sad. E911 for PBX/KSU customers regs forced people to cut the cord. It's sad, Avaya helped doing this, and there are people at that company that are public about that. People are in greater danger than ever before. 911 is not magical. Only one area code has the strongest E911 system in the country and that is 603 - New Hampshire. But NH is ridden with VOIP/mobile and barely any 1FB/1FH trunks, sadly.

I digress.

However I guess I'm going totally off topic since what is missing is the customers of the G3, CM/Aura/MV, S8300/8700, G650/G700, the Partners, the Merlin Family, and the infamous IP Office. Right, I forgot Avaya became Nortel and they forgot to change their name. I never liked Nortel, tech companies come and go and Avaya probably has 1% of the Fortune 500 when a DECADE AGO they had "more than 90%".

Avaya's demise is their fault, their business, their concern, their responsibility. They need to blame themselves. They are their only fault. They need to write a letter to their 5 remaining customers (I believe manatees and crocks use them more than humans today) stating "We Failed for Buying a Bleeding Edge Company that Bled our Finances. We Are Sorry"

RIP.

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

They live...look out Wall Street!
Source

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www.curlycord.com
Toronto, CAN

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

not sure it matters much at this point lol, theyve been losing money for quarter over quarter including record losses over the last two. Just bought them some time. Put a fork in em

RE: Avaya....What is going to happen?

Of course they might be bought out. Have heard some rumblings. Thinking it might happen before the end of year but with the passage of the new tax laws there may be a buyout after repatriating overseas profits. They already had a pretty hefty bid for the contact center business last year. Same bid would just about get the whole company. I don't think the lenders really want to take more risk by putting them on the market. Could lose another fortune overnight. I was happy to see their request for non-disclosure turned down. Potentially would have been a class action suit.

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