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Help Identifying Phone Block

Help Identifying Phone Block

(OP)
Hey Guys,
Need help from more experienced techs on identifying the pictures of this phone block and what to do with it. This phone block is located inside a 30 year old apartment building with a total of 17 units. A buddy of mine who's an electrician sucked me into this one. I gave him a good piece of my mind for doing this. I need your help identifying the block and suggestion on how to recable this block. Apparently the rats chewed through the units phone lines and the electrician ran new CAT6 cable to each unit. He first called Verizon to come out and cross connect everything to the new cabling but the Verizon techs won't touch it. "I can't say that I don't blame them". Then he calls me and wants me to completely remove and replace this old phone block with a new cross connect or something appropriate. I've done my fair share of 66 blocks but this one has me concerned because there is a ground wire bonded to the backboard of this block and I believe 66 blocks are not the correct solution for the proper type of replacement equipment. I need to detach the entire phone trunk and punch it down on either new blocks or something similar as well as rerun the new CAT6 and properly route and reconnect everything properly on a new fireproof backboard. 2 reasons I'm concerned for proper grounding. This is Florida and lightening is my primary concern the other is ensure the circuits are grounded properly. Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.Joe




Thank you,
Joe

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

If this is the telco demarc, and it appears to be, I don’t think you can touch it. It is a protection block, the cable comes in the left side and is protected by the arrestors (look like nuts on the board) which sends surges to the ground.

I would set two new 66 blocks to the side of the demark to land all the cables from the units, and then cross connect each circuit one by one. If you do it one at a time, outages will be minimized and it won’t be as confusing.

After the cross connect. I would build a tight fitting cover for the demarc bloc and cover it up.

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

(OP)
Thanks for your reply. That's exactly what I initially told him. The owner's insistent on moving the trunk and Verizon tech won't touch it! Is there a block out there with the proper bonding ground that I can obtain to fix this mess? I have to move it. Thanks. Joe

Thank you,
Joe

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

I would put a couple of split 50 66 blocks on the right side of this, remove the cables one at a time, then with single pair cross connect, re-connect to the demark. Just be mindful and mark where the connection was so you know where to cross connect to.

Always look out for the next tech. because one day it will be you!

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

Sorry. I almost forgot. You will need bridging clips so you can isolate the line for testing. Cross connect to the left side of the blocks, terminate station cables on the right.

Always look out for the next tech. because one day it will be you!

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

(OP)
Thanks again for your feedback jrgood0852, robertjo24. I had initially informed the owner of you option. Owner was keen on completely removing this entire demarcation board and replace it with another demarcation board or something similar. Then I informed the owner that an outage of 5-6 hours would definitely occur during the cut-over. Owner's okay with informing what the few occupants they have which is only about 6 occupants now (it's a vacation rental condo) and season has not kicked in yet. I've planned to tone out, ID and tag all trunk then move them over to split 50 66 blocks. Also plan to contact the DeHart for the cutover for the fire alarm and elevator phone. My concern is missing the proper grounding as a major factor. Any suggestions?

Thank you,
Joe

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

(OP)
You Rock jrgood0852! Thanks for all you do. Joe

Thank you,
Joe

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

Wait - you intend to replace this telephone company owned protector? You can't legally do that. All you can do is clean up the mess of I/W's terminated to it, as has been outlined above. But as far as chopping off the underground cable and installing a new building entrance terminal, that's completely forbidden.

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

No, TTT. He is not replacing, just cleaning up.

Always look out for the next tech. because one day it will be you!

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

(OP)
Thanks touchtone, from all of the feedback, I should have listened to my initial instincts and been firm with sparkie. I'm in agreement, I'm going to tell sparkie that this is completely off limits and I can only rewire his current cat6 to split 50 M-66 block but that's it. Thanks. Joe

Thank you,
Joe

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

(OP)
That's correct TTT, disconnect the truck and reterminate everything to a clean board with proper bonding and sure equipment. Can I still do that?? This is a fine line and I'm not jeopordizing my LV license and fines if this is the case. Please let me know guys. Joe

Thank you,
Joe

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

(OP)
Sorry meant proper surge equipment.

Thank you,
Joe

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

Legally, you cannot make any changes to the demarc block. If the building owner needs the block relocated, he needs to initiate an order with the local telco. They might move it within the same building/room, but there will be costs associated.
The building owner would be responsible for the clan-up past the demarc.

If you (or the building owner) takes on relocating and/or modifying or replacing this block without specific authorization from the telco, you could be exposed to a huge liability.

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

There's nothing wrong with leaving the demark exactly where it is, mounting a couple of 66 blocks next to it, relocating the data cables to the 66 blocks, cross connecting back to the demark pairs. This is the right of the owner/landlord of the premises.

Always look out for the next tech. because one day it will be you!

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

(OP)
Sparkie must like to gamble. I'm not willing to take that gamble. I work real hard from my money. Thanks. Joe

Thank you,
Joe

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

Quote:

He first called Verizon to come out and cross connect everything to the new cabling but the Verizon techs won't touch it. "I can't say that I don't blame them"

Yup, Verizon will only locate and tag the dial tones, they won't terminate the customer's wiring to the terminal that they tag.

Quote:

Then he calls me and wants me to completely remove and replace this old phone block with a new cross connect or something appropriate.

I take this to mean that sparky doesn't like the verizon protector itself, and wants to replace it with something a little more "modern". This is the part that only Verizon can do, for a T&M charge.

Quote:

There's nothing wrong with leaving the demark exactly where it is, mounting a couple of 66 blocks next to it, relocating the data cables to the 66 blocks, cross connecting back to the demark pairs. This is the right of the owner/landlord of the premises.

And this is the correct answer, very clearly stated.

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

And string up the electrician by his tool belt....

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

LOL, vt! This is why high voltage should stick with high voltage and leave the low stuff for us.hammer

Always look out for the next tech. because one day it will be you!

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

I don't know if the question was asked over at Sundance, but why did the electrician run CAT 6 cable for POTs lines? That seems like overkill. CAT 6 cable terminated to 66 blocks would be hard pressed to certify. CAT 3 cable would have made more sense.

I think that the equipment predates Verizon, so I'll agree that Ma Bell should have mounted 66 blocks next to the cabinet, extended from the protector to one side of the blocks, punched down, bridge clipped and tagged. From there the home runs to the units could be punched down on other 66 blocks and cross connects run.

I love2 "FEATURE 00"
http://dexman.webs.com/

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

(OP)
Hey Dexman, I did at the Sundance forum as well. Sparkie just ran the Cat6 without ever telling me. No certification required. My guess is he does not know a thing about LV wiring. Then Sparkie calls asking me to cleanup this mess. I immediately informed him that this was Verizons equipment and I can't touch it. Tells me he called Verizon to ask them to move the BEP. Verizon techs came out and laughed and flat out refused to move it. They even wrote in black magic marker at the top of the BEP "This is the 7th level of Dante's Phone Hell"! I black magic marker. It's labeled clearly on the 1st picture. I'm pretty sure the BEP equipment predates Verizon or even GTE who was their predecessor. Plan to use Cat5e 66M1-50 blocks as suggested. Thanks. joe

Thank you,
Joe

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

Ed V. mentioned that the cabinet was probably installed by GTE. I suppose Verizon could clean it up, but it would be a billable event...and judging by the pictures....it would be quite a task. "$"

The two main reason I would go with CAT 3 cabling is that the conductors tend not to be twisted as much as with CAT 5E & 6 (at least with Systimax/Commscope brand) and the CAT 3 conductors are 24 gauge as opposed to 23 for CAT 6, so prepping and punching down on 66 blocks tends to be a bit easier with "3".

But, as car commercials say, "Your milage may vary". sunshine

I love2 "FEATURE 00"
http://dexman.webs.com/

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

Kinda off topic but this is really not that big a mess. I am sure all of us oldtimers (40+ years in the business for me) have seen LOTS worse.

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

Probably so. I admit to having seen worse. The problem here is that the cables were "home run" right into Verizon's cabinet. There does not appear to be any rhyme or reason to how it was done.

I love2 "FEATURE 00"
http://dexman.webs.com/

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

Some idiot connected station cables directly to a dmarc. Agreeing with hopper...less that an hour to reterminate the station/riser cables to a block then cross connect from the block to the old screw terminal dmarc like the tenant should have done from day 1. It was done wrong by someone who did not understand structured wiring. That said....it's not a big deal, pretty easy, quick, and cheap to fix it. Not sure where this is at but paying any interconnect $200 should be more than enough to clean this up nicely with little downtime.

Isolation is a good idea but technically not the customer's responsibility. If the LEC's dmarc handoff (screw terminals in this case) has no means of testing isolation due to it's age / grandfathering, it just means the LEC needs to unscrew the terminal to isolate. A customer cross connect to a block with a bridge clip bridging to a station cable is still all going to be considered "inside wiring" by the LEC. The LEC will still likely unscrew the wire to isolate/test at their true dmarc which is the screw terminal.

-CL

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

The OP mentions that the location is in former GTE...now Verizon...territory. Apparently Verizon won't touch it, so, an Interconnect would be the next step.

I love2 "FEATURE 00"
http://dexman.webs.com/

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

Would it be possible to contact Verison and tell them the Demarc does not conform to proper standards and need to be repaired due to fire regulations, safety, etc. or they will need to disconnect all equipment and loose the revenue.
You would be happy to complete the repair for them, and bill the customer directly.

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

(OP)
Thanks for your input Mountainbear, I certainly would have worded to Verizon what you had suggested inorder to impose on them their responsibility in this matter however, this was sparkies gig and not mine. Shame is this could have been completely avoided had I been brought in at the beginning to do the work. I guess sparkie was anxious to make an extra buck and now it's biting him in the behind and looking for me to cleanup his mess.

Thank you,
Joe

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

Looks like a few Scotchloks were used as well. Why didn't the electrician go all the way?

I love2 "FEATURE 00"
http://dexman.webs.com/

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

Because he is a high voltage guy and should leave the LV to us!thumbsdown

Always look out for the next tech. because one day it will be you!

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

Did anybody notice in the pic above that Sparkie used the wht/org pair for his POTS lines? I cant help but wonder what the jack wiring looks like...

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

Most of the orange pairs I see are cross connect wiring.

RE: Help Identifying Phone Block

This box appears to be a phone company box. If it is you can't move it or do much with it. I would call the phone company and put in a locate and tag ticket for the entire box. This ticket requires them to identify phone numbers in the box. Depending on which company it is will determine if a ticket is required for each number found in the box. This maybe a act of Congress to get this done. A quick alternative is to use a buttset(test phone) to test for dial tone or data (ie DSL,uverse). Then place 2 or 3 punch down blocks next to the panel. Punch all the new wiring down on the new block(only if it is not connected). If the wire is connected pull one apartment wire at a time off the old block. Then run a jumper wire from the old box to the new block for connectivity. This is only required for the working number / data lines. Be carful with the way the alarm systems are wired because dial tone is sent to the alarm boxes then back to the panel for distribution to the jacks. For a brief walk through please respond to my post.

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