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acl03 (MIS)
21 Sep 09 11:07
It's a real pet-peeve of mine when a singer at a sporting (or other) event sings "their" version of the Star-Spangled Banner. I think it takes away from the meaning when a singer shows off and tries to make it their own. A lot of the time it seems as if they are trying to display their vocal range rather than sing the song for its intended purpose, which in my opinion, has been mostly lost.

Thoughts?

Do national anthems in countries other than the U.S. get changed in the same fashion?  

Thanks,
Andrew

smarty Hard work often pays off over time, but procrastination pays off right now!

SkipVought (Programmer)
21 Sep 09 11:26


Are you referring to Jordan Sparks' version last night?

Skip,

glassesJust traded in my old subtlety...
for a NUANCE!tongue

AnotherHiggins (TechnicalUser)
21 Sep 09 11:53
So I guess Jimmy Hendrix' version made your head explode?

-John
    The plural of anecdote is not data

Help us help you. Please read FAQ 181-2886 before posting.

acl03 (MIS)
21 Sep 09 12:07
Jordan Sparks' version did prompt this thread, but oddly enough I did not hear it. Some people were discussing it in a Giants forum I read, and it reminded me of how much I hate when people 'fancy it up'.

Actually, the Jimi Hendrix one I don't mind, maybe it's just the changed vocal style that bugs me. It just seems that they want to make it about themselves, not about the song/country.

Thanks,
Andrew

smarty Hard work often pays off over time, but procrastination pays off right now!

MeGustaXL (TechnicalUser)
21 Sep 09 12:37
My favourite is Whitney Houston at Super Bowl XXV, sung with power, emotion, pride and sheer joy at being an American, especially the "...and the home of the brave" at the end.

Faith Hill did a fantastic job at Super Bowl XXXIV too.

Oh, and I'm a Brit.
SkipVought (Programmer)
21 Sep 09 12:44



Isn't part of the spirit of The United States, rugged individualism?

I care more about the quality of the performance.

Roseanne Barr - Absolute DUD!

Sandi Patty - One of the best!

Jordan Sparks - Did not impress me.

Skip,

glassesJust traded in my old subtlety...
for a NUANCE!tongue

acl03 (MIS)
21 Sep 09 14:21
I could equate it to going to see a live performance of Beethoven's 3rd Symphony, and the orchestra does "their" version of it that includes an extraneous violin solo.

I am so impressed when a singer just does a (quality) classic rendition, it seems so rare these days.

[Kind of off-topic]
I was at a Giants game a few years ago, and the woman who sang the anthem was a NYC firefighter. It was just a couple years after 9/11 so it was kind of emotional. During the second verse, she got nervous and forgot the words. She was an excellent singer, too. I felt so bad for her, as did the whole crowd.
[/off topic]

Thanks,
Andrew

smarty Hard work often pays off over time, but procrastination pays off right now!

SantaMufasa (TechnicalUser)
21 Sep 09 14:44
I am as patriotic as they come, so I intend no ill will toward our "Star-Spangled Banner" anthem, but due to the "broad range and bright memory" required to sing it, I believe I'd like to have the country consider changing our anthem to "Proud to be an American"...singable melody and contemporary lyrics that people understand and identify with.

santaMufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
"Beware of those that seek to protect you from harm or risk. The cost will be your freedoms and your liberty."

SkipVought (Programmer)
21 Sep 09 14:46


I'd vote for either!  Love to sing both!

Skip,

glassesJust traded in my old subtlety...
for a NUANCE!tongue

BillyRayPreachersSon (Programmer)
21 Sep 09 14:50

I don't know about butchering a good tune, but I do know that our (UK) national anthem need updating. It still harps on about 'god' saving the queen, which clearly is never going to happen.

Given our penchant for modifying things that don't need changing (Renaming the post office, Pizza Hut, removing the Thames from the tube map, etc etc etc), why we can't turn our hand to changing outdated things is beyond me.

One thing I would say about the US national anthem, though: I'm not sure I'd call it 'The' national anthem (see thread title). I don't think any one country deserves to says theirs is better than all the rest.

Dan

 

Coedit Limited - Delivering standards compliant, accessible web solutions

Dan's Page @ Code Couch: http://www.codecouch.com/dan/

Code Couch Tech Snippets & Info: http://www.codecouch.com/
 

acl03 (MIS)
21 Sep 09 15:07
Santa,

I'd have to disagree. While it is a very difficult song to sing, I don't see any need to change it. I don't question your patriotism, however, after reading many of your posts.

It's probably just my resistance to change, but I like the current anthem. If I were to pick a different one, I'd go with "America the Beautiful".

Thanks,
Andrew

smarty Hard work often pays off over time, but procrastination pays off right now!

stubnski (MIS)
21 Sep 09 15:32
Santa I also disagree.  I like Proud to be an American but what would changing the US national anthem to any song say to the American youth about our country if we are willing to change a symbol of national pride because it is too hard to sing and remember?  

I'll second Whitney Houston's performance at Super Bowl XXV, it was excellent.


Stubnski
p5wizard (IS/IT--Management)
21 Sep 09 15:56
I may risk wandering slightly off-topic, but not having been blessed with a melodious voice to speak of (or sing about), the only anthem I will even attempt to sing is the Spanish national anthem. winky smile. I'm not Spanish mind you, but still, I can remember all the words... winky smile

I don't even know all the words to my own country's anthem. Never learnt/learned it, never had any reason to... Slightly less patriotic that Dave I'm afraid.

p5
SamBones (Programmer)
21 Sep 09 16:14

Quote (anotherhiggins):

So I guess Jimmy Hendrix' version made your head explode?

Jimi's version is supposed to make your head explode.

bigsmile

 
Michael52x (TechnicalUser)
21 Sep 09 16:38
Given that most singers of it do have range and vocal skill, it is still a bit off-putting to hear their extraneous warbling, of which their 'signature" is prevalent. I like non-professionals, like some little girl,I forget what year, who balked a bit, but finished it quite well. Does'nt AC/DC do the English anthem?  

"Impatience will reward you with dissatisfaction" RMS Cosmics'97

vb5prgrmr (Programmer)
21 Sep 09 23:46
[side]
There are three different kinds of people in this world when it comes to singing...

1. Those who can sing
2. Those who THINK they can sing
3. And those who know they can't

[/side]

Being of the later (knowing I cannot sing), I hate to hear a classic or classical song butchered like our/the US anthem by some singer who THINKS they can do a better version. There are just some songs that should not be messed with.

I don't know, call me a purest if you will but when a singer/group/composer creates a really good song it should be the last word. Think Bob Seger, Dio, U2, or whatever genre is your cup of tea.

However, there are exceptions to this rule and that is when the remix is just as good if not better than the original, think Aerosmith and Walk This Way.

my oh two...
kjv1611 (TechnicalUser)
22 Sep 09 7:12
I think saying that someone cannot take a song, and sing it a little differently without calling it their own work is not a good idea.  If it weren't for artistic impression being allowed as a whole, then you'd of never had many songs done in their current fashion, such as "Walk this Way" from Aerosmith.

disclaimer: I don't currently listen to Aerosmith or any other secular music artist for that matter, but I used to.

Also, a singer using artistic expression to sing/play a song differently than the way it was originally written can show that they do have true artistic talent.  Of course, that goes with any form of "art", I suppose.  If it weren't for artistic expression, we'd of never seen Davinci's works, Michaelangelo's, nor Vincent Van Gogh's.

Also, as already alluded to, the allowing of artistic expression in America goes a long way toward showing the true meaning of freedom.  If musicians weren't allowed to sing the American Anthem, or any other song, the way they wanted to, or felt best, on a particular occasion, then that would represent a more communistic government, I'd say.

That said, there are times when artistic expression isn't the best means of delivering any media.  I think, specifically, of times when you are directing music.  Sure, the director can hold out notes a little longer, or do things like that, but if you're say directing a group for the first time - think church music director, directing the congregation - then artistic expression in that sense is more likely to cause confusion than to do any good.

But if you're singing/painting/drawing/scupting/speaking, whatever, and you are not responsible for directing others at that particular moment, then there's no threat of confusion, I think, and therefore you should have a little bit of freedom to change things.

Of course, that does not mean you should be able to recite a poem, and change words at random, or particularly give historical information, and randomly change facts as you see fit. wink

I talked too much.  I need some coffee. morning

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

SkipVought (Programmer)
22 Sep 09 8:08


I cringe a little on, "And I won't forget the men who died, who gave that right to me."  

But I understand the intent.

Skip,

glassesJust traded in my old subtlety...
for a NUANCE!tongue

2ffat (Programmer)
22 Sep 09 8:15
Hey, don't forget Robert Goulet's version. He's a Canadian and (apparently) never learned the US National Anthem as a child. winky smile

I don't mind an interpretive version of the National Anthem as long as it's sung with feeling. So many singers do their trills and lilts on the anthem but have no feeling for what they are really singing.
 

James P. Cottingham
I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229!

acl03 (MIS)
22 Sep 09 8:39

Quote (kjv):

I think saying that someone cannot take a song, and sing it a little differently without calling it their own work is not a good idea.

I agree with this 100%. They can do whatever they want, that doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it. :)

I wasn't suggesting that there be a mandate to sing the anthem in a particular fashion, I just prefer it that way. And as 2ffat said, I don't find the overextended high notes and trills to have feeling. To me, it's all show-biz and phony. I also just dislike the way it sounds.

But, should a singer be allowed to do it any way he or she chooses? Absolutely.

Thanks,
Andrew

smarty Hard work often pays off over time, but procrastination pays off right now!

kjv1611 (TechnicalUser)
22 Sep 09 9:07
>>To me, it's all show-biz and phony.

Yeah, I suppose that's quite a large portion of everything in entertainment, especially... and other things as well... take pro sports, probably it could be argued - at least a big piece... and even politics. wink

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

acl03 (MIS)
22 Sep 09 9:12
Even politics??? :)

Politics is the most phone of them all!

Thanks,
Andrew

smarty Hard work often pays off over time, but procrastination pays off right now!

flapeyre (Programmer)
22 Sep 09 9:12
Since I sing in a choir, my tendency is to not be individualistic. In a choral setting (especially a church choral setting), you generally sing the music as written.

I feel that the Star-Spangled Banner should be sung in a respectful, yet passionate, manner. And I feel that this can be done without ad-libbing the modulation.

I also feel that the death penalty should be applied to any composer who comes up with an arrangement of "Flight of the Bumblebee" for bagpipe. wink

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

acl03 (MIS)
22 Sep 09 9:17
I would really like to hear "Flight of the Bumblebee" on the bagpipes. I think it would make for a great alarm clock.

Thanks,
Andrew

smarty Hard work often pays off over time, but procrastination pays off right now!

flapeyre (Programmer)
22 Sep 09 9:30
It would also work well as an anti-loitering background music.

There was a convenience store that tried to cut down on loitering by gangs by piping Muzak out front. It worked, but Muzak made them pull the plug. Too bad.

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

drlex (TechnicalUser)
22 Sep 09 11:24
flapeyre,
A store not far from where I am did similar a few years back but with classical music:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/nov/03/arts.ukcrime

Plus recently, a youth club used classical music to 'encourage' loitering attendees to disperse at the end of the night:
http://news.scotsman.com/odd/The-best-teenager-deterrent-Songs.5594354.jp
 

soi la, soi carré

flapeyre (Programmer)
22 Sep 09 16:17
I've often wanted to blast the hip-hop music out (the kind of music that makes your entire car vibrate, even with your windows rolled up) with the 1812 Overture. But esp. in urban areas, one does things like that at their own peril.

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

CajunCenturion (Programmer)
22 Sep 09 16:41
I'm afraid Francis that if you tried that, you might find the cannons pointed in your direction.
 

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flapeyre (Programmer)
23 Sep 09 12:55
I can dream, anyway. wink

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

stackdump (TechnicalUser)
23 Sep 09 14:26
For me, it's all about the person singing (or trying to). One of the most emotional things I ever saw was a group of mentally disabled kids singing the anthem. The familiar melody was barely discernible, but it brought a big lump in my throat and my eyes welled up. That was both the best and worst version I have ever heard. Actually thinking about it, that was the best version I have ever heard.
 
Welshbird (IS/IT--Management)
25 Sep 09 6:47
Actually, BPRS, God save the Queen is officially the Commonwealth Anthem, and strictly speaking the UK doesn't have one of its own. England has certainly never has one, and really should rather than singing God save the Queen at its sporting events.

I might be biased, but I believe the most rousing anthem is the Welsh one.

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

HarleyQuinn (Programmer)
25 Sep 09 9:39
I've got to say Dan, I don't think that just because something is seen by some as outdated, that it necessitates updating.

I've always found 'God Save the Queen' a rousing anthem (admittedly that has been instilled in me from a very young age and probably on a similar level of bias to Fee) and wouldn't be the happiest camper around if it was changed or replaced.

I personally think it falls into the 'things that don't need changing' category.

Regards

HarleyQuinn
---------------------------------
Carter, hand me my thinking grenades!

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CajunCenturion (Programmer)
25 Sep 09 11:05
How about this rendition of the USA National Anthem?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKCVS57j284

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To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
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mjldba (TechnicalUser)
25 Sep 09 14:56
The US and Canadian anthems are sung before NHL hockey games & I love the Canadian anthem because it can actually be sung by an average human being.

I'm sure more than a few professional singers have rendered the US anthem "their-style" because the vocal range necessary is demanding.

My personal favorites:  Whitney Houston, Faith Hill, Al Jareau, and I'm pretty sure Josh Groban sang it but I don't remember the event .... all were moving.
flapeyre (Programmer)
25 Sep 09 15:33

Quote (mjdba):

I love the Canadian anthem because it can actually be sung by an average human being.
It does have the advantage of simplicity. My elementary school ripped off the tune for their school song (this goes back to 1960).

Considering the tune for The Star-Spangled Banner was an English drinking song, it's not hard to see why it's difficult to sing properly.

It's like everything else: it takes practice to sing properly. I think too many of these celebs don't take the time to actually read the sheet music.

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

kjv1611 (TechnicalUser)
28 Sep 09 8:38
On the thought of the American Anthem not being easy to sing by a standard person, I believe if you sing it in a different octave, or even different key, most people could find a level they are comfortable with.  Well, maybe... it does go pretty low at places, and purty high at others... But for the basics of it, you could always modify it enough to get by, if you're just wanting to sing it to yourself.  However, quite often, with emotionally stirring songs, I seem to get more out of the song, if I just sit and listen, thinking about the words... thinking about what may have gone through the mind of the author at the time... thinking about the history surrounding the song... well, at least for those that I know a little about.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

mjldba (TechnicalUser)
28 Sep 09 15:00
agree with you about focusing on content rather than melody.

First time I heard "God Bless the USA" (Lee Westwood) was at an NFL championship game that occured at the same time as the Desert Storm offensive.  We were patted down outside the stadium (usual) by stadium security and patted down inside the stadium by "others" and this was highly unusual.

A friend said they had seen 2 Apache helicopters behind the fieldhouse but that cannot be confirmed.  Why choppers?  An NFL stadium with 80,000+ people makes a significant target.

Huge American flags everywhere in the stadium, a very intense low-speed flyover by the USAF and the lyrics moved me to tears ... and the song will bring tears to my eyes today.  
Annihilannic (MIS)
28 Sep 09 19:29
I find that really odd.  Anything to do with military activity is a real turn-off for me.   

Annihilannic.

kjv1611 (TechnicalUser)
29 Sep 09 9:25

Quote (Annihilannic):

I find that really odd.  Anything to do with military activity is a real turn-off for me.    

So then, you don't like the American National Anthem?

Quote (StarSpangledBanner):


Oh, say! can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming;
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there:
Oh, say! does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In fully glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh, long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution!
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.


Oh, thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust":
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

rasETL (IS/IT--Management)
29 Sep 09 10:27
Anyone have a problem with the fact the National Anthem is performed almost exclusively at Sporting events?

Have you heard the National Anthem performed anywhere else?

Maybe at Military Funerals or other miltary functions, but anywhere else?

I wonder if Francis Scott Key would have been a Football, Basketball, or Baseball fan?  
SantaMufasa (TechnicalUser)
29 Sep 09 11:19
Coming from a patriotically exuberant community, I hear our anthem at many (most) non-sporting events. We often sing it a cappella, as well; it is frequently a hymn at church for us.

santaMufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
"Beware of those that seek to protect you from harm or risk. The cost will be your freedoms and your liberty."

guitarzan (Programmer)
29 Sep 09 11:26
rasETL:
At most of my kid's school performances where the school band / orchestra members are present (high and junior high), they play the star spangled banner (music only).

It's not so much that the anthem is played almost exclusively at sporting events, but that the anthem is generally played when a large group gets together. And the most frequent gathering of large numbers of people I can think of is at sporting events! Parades are another.

What other times do you think the anthem should be played?
SantaMufasa (TechnicalUser)
29 Sep 09 12:00

Quote (Quitarzan):

What other times do you think the anthem should be played?
Whenever Osama bin Laden meets with his people. <grin>

santaMufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
"Beware of those that seek to protect you from harm or risk. The cost will be your freedoms and your liberty."

BobRodes (Instructor)
29 Sep 09 12:52
<It's a real pet-peeve of mine when a singer at a sporting (or other) event sings "their" version of the Star-Spangled Banner.

I agree.  I don't find that a patriotic gesture such as the singing of our national anthem at a large gathering of people should be taken as an opportunity to show off in front of that gathering.  It's self-serving and disrespectful, in my opinion.  (If Aretha did it, though, I would say she gets a pass.)

Jimi's rendition is not the same thing.  First, he didn't play it at baseball games or Memorial day celebrations or whatever, he played it at rock concerts.  And further, it is one of the great masterpieces of the musical literature.  It went a bit deeper than being our national anthem, part exuberance and part sarcasm, expressing in equal amounts the joy and of being a free American and the hurt and anger of being an oppressed one.  

<the fact the National Anthem is performed almost exclusively at Sporting events
Many symphonies perform the national anthem before beginning a concert.  Perhaps the concern is more that people get together in large numbers almost exclusively at sporting events.
Annihilannic (MIS)
29 Sep 09 20:02

Quote (kjv1611):

So then, you don't like the American National Anthem?

I guess I'm indifferent to it.  I just listeneed to the tune to remind myself, not bad as far as national anthems go.  First time I've read the words though...

Annihilannic.

ascotta (Vendor)
29 Sep 09 22:45
I like the US anthem, I like the Australian one (written by a Scot).

I will stand to attention to "god save our Auntie Jean", I have issues with some of the verses.

Although Flower of Scotland is a really good song, its a dirge; a lament; and drives me nuts, and not what should be a national anthem.

Even I as a Scotsman I have hairs on the back of my neck standing up and goose bumps when I hear the Welsh national anthem being sung in Cardiff or Edinburgh, its fabulous.

As for the renditions some of the vocal gymnastics that go on are a bit much.

A perspective from the other side!!

Cheers
Scott

Welshbird (IS/IT--Management)
30 Sep 09 6:55
Well said Scotty!

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

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