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weird problem when using loop start to dial outHelpful Member! 

modulistic (TechnicalUser) (OP)
16 Oct 08 17:34
one of three things happen with no rhyme or reason.  totally random as far as I can tell

oh I almost forgot.  mitel 3300 software.  

1) I hit 5 to grab the analog trunk : call will go through as normal
2) I hit 5 to grab the analog trunk : immediately - dooo doo dooo "we're sorry, your call can not be completed as dialed"
3) I hit 5 to grab the analog trunk : 20 seconds of silence "if youd like to make a call, please hang up and try again"  

I swear to God im going to pitch this 3300 into the ocean.
modulistic (TechnicalUser) (OP)
16 Oct 08 17:36
these are all calls to the same number by the way. same  7 digits everytime.  
Helpful Member!  kwbMitel (TechnicalUser)
16 Oct 08 18:19
The most likely possiblility is that the system is not delaying before dialing out. (dialing before dialtone is presented by the CO). If you don't program a delay the system will start dialing and the CO will miss the first couple of digits resulting in the symptoms as described.

The form is CO tone detection

Create a Tone Plan that waits 1 second before sending DTMF
Tone Plan = 1
Maximum wait for dialtone = 1
action on timeout = Outpulse DTMF

Now in the form Digit Modification Assignment you need to add the tone plan.

Digit Modification Number =  (As assigned in Route Assignment)
Number of digits to absorb = 1 (typically)
Digits to be inserted = <T01>  (This uses Tone plan 1)

Happy hunting


Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

modulistic (TechnicalUser) (OP)
16 Oct 08 18:33
thanks again kwb.

I dont know how the average person is supposed to know all this without running up a 10,000,000 dollar bill with mitel technical supp...

oh I get it now.
kwbMitel (TechnicalUser)
16 Oct 08 18:37
This stuff isn't for the average user I'm sorry to say.

Been doing this for 20 years and I still learn new stuff every day.

Glad to help.  

Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

slapin (MIS)
16 Oct 08 19:06
modulistic, this is why mitel and other manufacturers sell this stuff through VARs. In fact you cannot buy cisco, avaya, mitel and other enterprise level telecom systems direct. You have to be trained and cerified to do so. This platform designed to work in various environments. I have it installed in 4 different countries, where line and signaling standards have different and we were able to make it work without any "special" adaptors, just because the system is so flexible and allows so many tweaks. Read documentation, embedded on-line help, become Mitel User group member. I'm an end user and don't have any other sources of information except just mentioned. Yeah, one more, guys on this forum are real gold, so stick around.  
modulistic (TechnicalUser) (OP)
16 Oct 08 19:09
which contries?
modulistic (TechnicalUser) (OP)
16 Oct 08 19:12
hey KWB.

its still giving me trouble. just not as often as before.

Ive upped the wait time to 2 seconds, added members precise dial tone, na dial tone mod 133, na dial tone mod 12.

I think I got turned around cause I made these changes in Call Progress Tone Detection form.

there is a CO tone detection form with very specific tone detection, Im going to try that one out.   
modulistic (TechnicalUser) (OP)
16 Oct 08 19:51
I set wait time to 5 seconds and it seems to be working a little better now.  I think it is because my dial tone is working out of an ancient remote dial tone carrier
modulistic (TechnicalUser) (OP)
16 Oct 08 19:57
nope.  still messing up.
slapin (MIS)
16 Oct 08 21:43
BTW, which country are you in? Is it in the list? The system has preconfigured sets for common standards.
What is in CO circuit description form? try following maintenance command before and after you make calls
"ST TR GR <Your outgoing trank group>"

Configure a feature code for trunk direct access. Use it to see how the system seizes and releases individual trunks.
Looks like you configured to ignore all sorts of supervision signals which WILL cause all sorts of issues. Generally you should not be able to grab a line which is not in idle state. And a trunk should not go to idle state until it will get proper signal from the CO and should not seize the line until CO gives dial tone. In most cases it is a good idea to configure ARS with known number of digits for each prefix. This will allow you to have flexible routing. Calls can be directed to IP trunks, SIP trunks, PRIs, difital T1/E1 lines,E&M and CO trunks. If you configure a prefix which gives you straight dial tone from an analog line and user acually dials into the line digit by digit, you are stuck on that line and cannot use alternatives even if they are available. It is last century to have a switch board and plug patch wires into CO lines. Now things are much more intellectual and you are in position of the person who is going to make this things invisible and transparent for your users. When users don't see and feel all the complexity, your job is done well.  
modulistic (TechnicalUser) (OP)
17 Oct 08 20:42
im in Alaska, so technically Im in America.  

here is a copy of my form.


CO Trunk Circuit Descriptor Assignment
Number:    11
Line Start Type:    Loop
Post Call Metering:    No
Guard Timer:    800
Calling Party Disconnect:    Yes
Dictation Trunk:    No
Ignore Far End Disconnect:    No
Disconnect Timer:    500
Ignore Far End Reversal During Seizure:    Yes
Ringing Expected:    Yes
Seize Timer:    10
Address Signalling:    DTMF
Fake Answer Supervision After Outpulsing:    Yes
Ignore Answer Supervision:    Yes
Release Supervision Expected:    Yes
Audio Inhibit Until Answer Supervision:    Yes
High Loss Option:    No
Balance Network Setting:    National Complex
Trunk Category:    Short
Perform seize test on out-of-service trunks:    Yes
Ground Condition During Busy Out:    Removed
First Meter Pulse Is Answer:    No
Minimum Ring Detection Timer:    200
Drop Digit Rcvr for Outgoing Audio Before Ans Sup:    No
Flash Timer:    300
Call Clearing Signal:    Disconnect
AC Impedance:    National
CLASS Trunk:    No
Milliwatt Tone:     
Silence Tone:     
modulistic (TechnicalUser) (OP)
17 Oct 08 20:50
state trunk group said idle both times.  

I found something that made a difference... I hit nine to dial out so in digit modification tables I changed digits absorbed to be 1 obviously.  I changed it to zero just grasping at straws and now it dials out every time.  

this doesnt make sense to me because that should mean the 9 is being sent out too, right?
i appreciate your last sentence too, by the way.  too bad this is my own company expiremental PBX so technically im the customer and boy do I wish I was shielded from all the complexity.
kwbMitel (TechnicalUser)
18 Oct 08 13:41
If the 9 is not required for outbound calls then the timing is off and the 9 is not being received by the CO.

Do you have the means (Test Set) to monitor the line and listen to the dialing and make sure the delay you've programmed is actually happening?

Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

slapin (MIS)
20 Oct 08 9:13
Try to access this trunk using direct trunk access code, which can be programmed in Feature access codes form. Use something like **2 and then trunk number as programmed in Analog Trunk Assignment form. So the full sequence will be **2 0001 for the trunk number 1 **2 0002 for trunk 2 **2 0100 for trunk 100. Using this you will access trunks and hear how long does it take to get dial tone, how it is reacting on DTMF entry and other stuff

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