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BoyRacer1001 (Programmer) (OP)
29 Jan 08 17:42
AES Server TSAPI Licenses - When viewed in WebLM, I have X number. When looking at TSAPI Connections in Admin, I have X plus any current calls being recorded.

According to Avaya docs, Call recording using CMAPI and 3rd party (in this case Verint) recorder should use 2 TSAPI during each recording. This matches what I see in the Admin TSAPI Connections, but not the WebLM licenses consumed.

Can I trust the WebLM to be accurrate with licenses consumed? (doing repeated refreshes etc with no change), or is it too slow to register the dynamic use of licenses.
Coineandude (TechnicalUser)
30 Jan 08 14:34
i think that the weblm tsapi license usage is the number of objects being monitored via tsapi and will thus remain static unless you are changing the objects to be monitored via your app.

in this case you sre monitoring the tation/trunk/whatever, plus the station that the app is using for utility - in my case, an ip station for single step conference recording.
each of these consumes a license thus the 2 per call note.

so from a weblm perspective, these objects are authorized to be monitored by the app, while admin is looking at active/idle ports - a subset of authorized objects.
staylor2 (TechnicalUser)
18 Jul 08 0:26
We have been advised by AVAYA that we need 1 license per recording channel + 1 per agent to be monitored + 1 per skill to be monitored + 5% "just in case". Unfortunately TSAPI seems to be a black art when it comes to getting a definitive answer from either AVAYA or Verint.
telcomwork (TechnicalUser)
18 Jul 08 6:40
I'm using Witness / Verint Contact Store with IP Recording and any time I order I need 3 licenses to record:

1 CMAPI on the S87xx
1 TSAPI on the AES
1 Contact Store License
telcomwork (TechnicalUser)
18 Jul 08 6:59
The only other one involved was one time license when I set it up I had to purchase LARGE ADVANCED on the AES server
fadelbakkar (TechnicalUser)
4 Aug 08 5:53
I have 959 seats,300 vdn and 80 skills.

so how many tsapi license I need if I have 600 concurrent call.


I need to clearify :if the assigning of tsapi license is dynamic for the seat ,VDN and skill or no.

thanks in advance
Gibsonic (MIS)
8 Aug 08 13:19
im in the same boat as fadelbakkar

except i am deploying etalk instead of verint. We are replacing verint which uses dlg through our aging map-d to the etalk through the AES.

my avaya BP and I are both scratching our heads as to what licenses and in what quantity we need on the switch and the AES server.

in our case we have about 385 max concurrent agent login and our business is growing pretty aggressively with probably a 20% increase in agents year over year.

anyone got any ideas?

 
telcomwork (TechnicalUser)
8 Aug 08 13:34
To accomplish one recorded call I need:

S87xx
1 CMAPI license loaded on the S87xx (IP_API_A)

Witness CSCM Server
1 Contact Store License

AES
1 TSAPI Simultaneous Users License on the AES
telcomwork (TechnicalUser)
8 Aug 08 13:37
Actually correction I'm using screen pops so you would not need the AES 1 TSAPI Simultaneous Users License on the AES





For call recording you would need

S87xx
1 CMAPI license loaded on the S87xx (IP_API_A)

Witness CSCM Server
1 Contact Store License  
dwalin (TechnicalUser)
11 Aug 08 11:32
BoyRacer1001,

tsapi licensing isn't black voodoo magic, aes consumes one tsapi basic license per each monitored extension (real or virtual) and one per each monitored skill, so depending on the recording system you may need 1 x real extensions + 1 x virtual extensions (optional) + 1 per skill and be within limits. however there's a hitch: starting with aes4 you can buy a "tsapi basic partner app" license if used with nice/witness/verint call recording systems (it isn't checked anyways but i didn't tell you so). this partner app license accounts for two real tsapi licenses in aes weblm. this way, you can order one tsapi partner license per recorded extension + 1 per skill and always be on the safe side.

telcomwork,

cmapi isn't the only one recording method available out there. for example, trunk side recording or passive ip recording doesn't need cmapi licenses and doesn't need 2 tsapi basic licenses per extension. also not all cmapi recording environments require 2 tsapi licenses per channel (1 real + 1 virtual ext), for example nice 8.9 cmapi did require it only in selective recording environments although avaya and nice both said it is required nevertheless. nice perform doesn't require it at all since virtual extension is now monitored and controlled via cmapi itself. so it's not that trivial as it may sound...
 
telcomwork (TechnicalUser)
11 Aug 08 19:52
Dwalin do me a favor please point out where I said there was only one technology for recording, where I said it was trivial, where I didn't include my specifics "I'm using Witness / Verint Contact Store with IP Recording " of licenses needed.

I said throughout what I needed and what I was using (specifics)... not generic examples or what if scenerios as you are trying to point out.





 
RKSahoo (TechnicalUser)
12 Aug 08 1:54
One TSAPI license is required for one port recording station/trunk etc. Avaya is using a thumb rule of multiplying 1.5 with required concurrent channels. e.g if you have 500 channels for recording then you should have 500*1.5=750 TSAPI licenses in AES to support. The rest 250 is to be used for skill, VDN etc monitroing.
dwalin (TechnicalUser)
12 Aug 08 5:15
telcomwork,

sorry, i didn't mean to offend you. i just tried to say that there may be different environments even with the same recording product and different licensing requirements. designing 'em always give me headaches. :(
 
telcomwork (TechnicalUser)
12 Aug 08 21:08
APologies is all mine you always help me in time of need and just wanted to make sure I wasn't out of line and if so make sure I never do it again. Many thanks!
BoyRacer1001 (Programmer) (OP)
14 Aug 08 18:00
dwalin,

Interesting you say isn't mysterious, when Avaya themselves couldn't say exactly when they were consumed...   smile
It depends very much on the application (as you say, depending on the recording system), and that was my question - with Verint active recording did we need the license covering the Virtual extension.
Its easy to cover if allowing the two per monitored extension + skills which is what we did, but hard to explain to a customer when their IT are trying to monitor actual license use themselves - the virtual don't appear as licenses consumed in WebLM.


 
dwalin (TechnicalUser)
15 Aug 08 0:40
BoyRacer1001,

well it won't be the first time avaya fails to explain their own product. :) indeed it depends too much on application to say anything without knowing that application's guts -- for example, i can explain and justify every license consumed by nice recording system because i know it good enough but can't say anything about verint. i just never seen it. :)
however i can tell you some pratical rules regarding aes tsapi licensing:
1. every monitored extension consumes one tsapi basic license (once).
2. every monitored hunt group (skill) consumes one tsapi basic license (once).
3. vdn does not consume license.
4. for extensions and hunt groups a license is consumed only once. so if there are two applications monitoring same extension, it'll consume one license not two. regardless of what avaya guys are saying. :))

as you see, the last point may become the source of great confusion, especially if there are several applications using tsapi with different sets of extensions. well, all i can say... use separate aes server per application, is all. by the way it's a healthy habit per se 'cause aes sometimes needs to be rebooted or service restarted or patch installed or something. also it's much easier to troubleshoot.  
BoyRacer1001 (Programmer) (OP)
17 Aug 08 20:13
dwalin,

Thanks for the clarification, my next AES is on NICE so your advice will be helpful for sure.

smile
 
joemITS (Vendor)
22 Aug 08 13:22
Does anyone here seem to know the default CSCM root password for 7.7.1?

Thanks in advance...
Helpful Member!  Cti4all (IS/IT--Management)
3 Sep 08 0:01
I can help with Nice and Witness, unsure about other recording apps. First, the guidelines were written to help because it is not as simple as you might hope. The fact is, in the hands of less skilled folks, what might seem clear to many could easily be twisted into a demand for free license due to confusion. First, insight into use...

When TSAPI creates an association for basic services, a license is consumed. Two basic types of associations, domain controllers (station, hunt group, vdn monitors), and call controllers. When an existing association exists for that AES server/CTI Link, additional client requests will use the existing monitor, thus will share the license. I recall, up to 8 clients can establish a monitor association on a given device, thus up to 8 apps could share a license.

HOWEVER...R4.2 adds some trusted license types that are not shared, these are for Avaya apps to allow license to be sold at lower cost (or free) without giving away for other apps. The confusion comes from the fact that this is a bit complex, so they give general advice that wont catch you short...but, technically it works to share a lic and nobody will refuse support over it. Bottom line, buy what you need, but if you don't know for sure, go with the guidelines so you don't fall short.

DWALLIN comment above is spot on, so here is how the recorders use the additional lics for recording channels:

Nice monitors all agent stations, all times, all configs. Plus, it uses a full time lic on rec channels UNLESS doing DMCC All Calls in which Service Observation is done once using DMCC (thus 0 TSAPI lics for this mode). For selective DMCC (SO or SSC), selective DS1, one license will be used per recording channel at all times the system is running. For trunk/station side taps, no license is used for recording channels.

Witness has several configs, some use no TSAPI. When TSAPI is used for the rich call tagging (monitors on agent stations, hunt groups, vdns), it is like Nice, all stations, all times.

The Witness bulk recording uses no TSAPI for recording channels. Bulk record uses Call Info service in DMCC for tagging calls, and uses button commands to park the observer  on the agent set at startup. So, in bulk record, channels never use a license, agents, hunts might use TSAPI in some cases when more info is required.

For Witness conference and selective recording, each concurrent recording will use a license, plus the agent stations etc. In conference recording, TSAPI tells the system about calls on agent stations, business logic decides when to record, and finds a channel to add. Since you could potentially use all channels, you want 1 lic per channel, but will see use based on concurrent recordings.

Use will be constant in all but selective/conference Witness recording.

TSAPI Advanced is now licensed on per CM basis, recording never uses advanced. When a link is opened to CM, CM reports it's vital info like release and server type. The first time an app invokes an advanced request (predictive call, route select or selective listen/hold), TSAPI will look for a small/med/large based on the server type from startup. Once it is cleared for use, it is never checked again. The Advanced Users are also still used on a per transaction basis, but use is so short that it is rare to see the Advanced Users in use. About the only time you might see them in use is with predictive calling on large scales where many calls are launching concurrently.  
telcomwork (TechnicalUser)
3 Sep 08 5:40
Cti4all - that si a great write up and explains exactly what I purchase and what I need them for/

THank you and STAR!

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