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crooter (TechnicalUser) (OP)
2 Feb 06 22:11
any difference in the RJ45? Seems to me I have not seen any CAT6 Rj45's.......anyone know anything different?
skip555 (TechnicalUser)
2 Feb 06 23:12
well if your using cat 6 cable I would use cat 6 jacks

for cat5e cable cat 5e jacks

there available , do a google search or look on ebay , ask in any supply house or distritor .  probably evan have them in the big box stores

here you go , how many do you want

http://www.google.com/search?q=cat6+jacks&;sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&;start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
ttech (Vendor)
3 Feb 06 9:12
If it is crimp on ends you are looking for, you won't find them. Buy pre-made patch cables and use jacks
wires (TechnicalUser)
3 Feb 06 10:34
Cat6 plugs are available from many vendors:

www.provantage.com/cables-go-27575~7CBTB01C.htm

www.pcconnection.com/ProductDetail?sku=6170772&SourceID=k22350

www.milestek.com/search1.asp?ltype=2&search=1&;skw=MAVCN01J&color=AB1DA1

My preference is Panduit for these sort of parts. They have part number SP688-C which you should be able to get at Graybar. The instruction sheet is here:

http://www.panduit.com/products/InstallationInstructions/069211.pdf

Cat6 plugs are a bit more bother but there is no reason a competent technician should not be able to  install them properly.
oldtimerbob (TechnicalUser)
3 Feb 06 10:40
Cat6 has a bigger wire than Cat5e,thus you have to use a Cat6 plug for the RJ-45 connection.
crooter (TechnicalUser) (OP)
3 Feb 06 12:02
Sorry guys--maybe I mis-wrote, but I am asking if the RJ45 comes in cat5/5e and cat6 flavors--or is it a uni-rj45 that fits all categories?
ISDNman (Vendor)
3 Feb 06 12:36
8-pin 8-position plugs are category rated. As such, you must use a Cat.6 plug if you wish the resulting system to be Cat. 6 compliant.

Look in your favorite suppliers catalog and you'll see different plugs listed for the various categories.

As others point out on this forum frequently, actually making reliable installations of plugs is not always easy, and hence many here recommend buying all patch cables.

For the same reason (as well as meeting the structured cabling standards) most recommend terminating all wiring to jacks, not plugs.

Best of luck!
crooter (TechnicalUser) (OP)
3 Feb 06 12:53
Ok--I guess I am really terrible n my description-------I thought a plug or modular insert was what went on the faceplate or patch panel, which is rated as Cat5, Cat5E, Cat6, etc----and the RJ45 was what was attached to the end of the patch cables.

I want to know if the RJ45 on the end of the patch cable is rated--not the cable--not the modular plugs or inserts, but the RJ45 clear, sometimes smoked, plastic end that 8 wires fit into and then has to be crimped. Are there cat5 rj45's and cat6 rj45's or are they acceptable for all types or terminatons.

Thanks--sorry to make it difficult
wires (TechnicalUser)
3 Feb 06 13:36
"I want to know if the RJ45 on the end of the patch cable is rated"

Yes. You must use a plug rated for the type of installation you are working on. Cat6 is a heaver gauge than Cat3, Cat5 or Cat5e so using the older plugs on Cat6 is not recommended. Additionally some plugs only work on stranded conductors, some only work on solid conductors and some work on both.
ISDNman (Vendor)
3 Feb 06 13:45
A plug is the "male" thing that is typically seen on a patch cable.

A jack is the "female" thing that is part of a patch field or a jack (or Keystone insert). 8-position/8-pin minature modular  jacks are generally, but erroneously, referred to as an "RJ-45 jack".

Just as with every other compenent of a Cat. rated structured cabling system carries a rating, so does the 8-position/8-pin minature modular plug (also known erroneously, but ubiquitously, as an "RJ-45 plug").

Have a good weekend :)
oldtimerbob (TechnicalUser)
5 Feb 06 9:46
Nomenclature seems to be the problem here.
The device you see at the workstation in the faceplate is called a Jack.

The device at the end of the patch cable is called a plug.

Each has to be rated for the type of cable it attaches.


Good luck.
bkrike (MIS)
5 Feb 06 13:05
stop the madness
the answer is YES
bkrike (MIS)
5 Feb 06 13:36
Just joking around above crooter-

Anyhow, as the people above have answered: Yes, there are differences between the cat5e and cat6 "plastic end that 8 wires fit into and then has to be crimped."
crooter (TechnicalUser) (OP)
5 Feb 06 13:48
Thanks all---I ran some cat6 rated rj45 "plugs" on a Cat6 cable and then I put some cat5e rated plugs on the same cable. Tested it with a Fluke dsp4000 ---- for cat6----both passed for cat6.
wires (TechnicalUser)
5 Feb 06 14:06
"I ran some cat6 rated rj45 "plugs" on a Cat6 cable and then I put some cat5e rated plugs on the same cable. Tested it with a Fluke dsp4000 ---- for cat6----both passed for cat6."

The fact it passed is somewhat meaningless.

Several years ago Continental Airlines was found to be using common black plumbing fittings in some hydraulic lines of their airplanes. Needless to say these "bootleg" parts passed all tests but got them in considerable trouble with the FAA. The bottom line is that these parts were not engineered, manufactured or inspected for use in airplanes.

When you knowingly go against spec you get in the trouble you deserve.

Like I said before, cat6 and cat5 use different wire sizes. Since the sizes are different and contact is made by IDC methods you are likely to experience problems using a cat5 connector on cat6 cables. The problems may not be apparent on every connection or consistent over time.
crooter (TechnicalUser) (OP)
5 Feb 06 14:18
Excellent point--thats why I asked for differences---I would rather use correct practices
skip555 (TechnicalUser)
5 Feb 06 14:35
well if your intent is correct practices there really is no need for plugs .

  your cable should be terminated to jack on one end patch panel on the other and you should be using factory made patch cords patch panel to switch and jack to workstation.

 i do carry a high end crimp tool and plugs but rarly use it and then just as a temporary soultion
crooter (TechnicalUser) (OP)
5 Feb 06 14:40
Customer waived purchasing company manufactured patch cables and wanted custom fitted cables for their work/test areas
skip555 (TechnicalUser)
5 Feb 06 15:01
I would not have offred it as a option on something I was going to put my name on .

I think you will find if you price it out factory cables will be the same or cheaper than "scrap crap " site made .

 long term how many service calls for bad cables will it take before the customer looks for a new vendor ?
crooter (TechnicalUser) (OP)
5 Feb 06 16:01
Good point---never the less---they are aware of the choices and they chose a custom cable. I am giving them a 1 year warranty on the rj45 plugs and one re-cert. So sometimes you just do what customer wants and you live with it. I think we all have conceded to the customers wants and needs at least once. Haven't you Skip?
wires (TechnicalUser)
5 Feb 06 17:23
If you are competent there is NO reason you cannot make a cable as good as some factory. The reason not to is that factory cables are cheaper than a competent person's time.

I carry a non "high end crimp tool" that has made thousands of terminations. There has NEVER been a problem with any of them that testing didn't catch. I know since I only wire networks that I support.

It depends on the job if I buy or make the cables myself. Custom made cables can really make a job look great with no effect on performance. It also costs more since I can only make and test about 20 cat5 cables per hour.

It is time to give "scrap is crap" a rest. I have found factory made cables that were bad. It happens.

If you can't make a decent cable how good is your workmanship overall?
phuzzy42 (IS/IT--Management)
6 Feb 06 2:06
Right on, wires.  I've made hundreds of "scrap crap" cables over the years, except they weren't scrap and they weren't crap.  Nothing gets put into service without being tested, and I've had one home-made cable fail in the last 5 years and it was in a location that the best commercial cable would've failed too.

I don't use hand-made patch cables by choice - the hoops I have to go through to purchase anything (I work for a state government) make it necessary to make do with what I have on hand.

Quote:

If you can't make a decent cable how good is your workmanship overall?

That pretty much says it all.
skip555 (TechnicalUser)
6 Feb 06 9:56
there are peaple that drive home from the bar drunk , succsefully  week after week , year after year no prblems at all .

it dosnt make drunk driving a good idea

If you cant drive home drunk , How good are your driving skills overall ?

"im a better driver drunk than most are sober "..weve all heard that statement



SCRAP CRAP patch cables are to me a sign of a poor instalation  done by someone not interested in quality or meeting standards .  

I think its a fools game to go to the extra effort and expense to pull cat6 cable then put a inferior patch cord in the mix

(psst...just becouse it tests out good today , what happens in 6 months after its been flexed a dozen times ? )
skip555 (TechnicalUser)
6 Feb 06 9:59

Quote:

don't use hand-made patch cables by choice - the hoops I have to go through to purchase anything (I work for a state government) make it necessary to make do with what I have on hand.

 nope just means your not doing your job , if you need to go thru hoops to do it right then I would go thru the hoops  rather than taking the easy way ... but then thats me
wires (TechnicalUser)
6 Feb 06 11:00
There is NOTHING analogous between driving drunk and making cables. One is illegal and the other is not. On the other hand any type of termination work requires manual dexterity. If you can't do a good job on a plug how good a job can you do on a jack?

If there is a standard that says only factory made cables are acceptable please cite it here.

BTW - I don't appreciate your insults "not interested in quality" and I am fairly sure phuzzy42 "not doing your job" doesn't either. This my way or the highway sort of discourse was to blame for a fairly long quiet period on this forum. Please don't take us down that path again.
ISDNman (Vendor)
6 Feb 06 11:02
OK, to throw some kerosene on the fire....

The people who make "factory" cables get paid minimum wages.

Seems to me factory made means very little if you buy from just any factory.

Got to find a good vendor and then stick with him/her.

Certainly molded plugs can have better strain relief versus non molded.

Let the flames roar!
skip555 (TechnicalUser)
6 Feb 06 19:45
so WIRES you can suggest that my "workmanship overall is lacking " becouse I choose not to make cables  but my observation  that you your more interested in cutting cost by using SCRAP CRAP than providing a quality job is insulting ?

   you guys knock yourelf out grab the tool and crimp away , really dosn't matter to me I may actully be the guy they call out to get things working right .

(BTW factory made cables aretn made by a min wage worker with a 15 crimp tool )
phuzzy42 (IS/IT--Management)
7 Feb 06 1:55

Quote:

nope just means your not doing your job , if you need to go thru hoops to do it right then I would go thru the hoops  rather than taking the easy way ... but then thats me

I'm not going to debate you over the difference in quality between hand-made or factory-made -- your mind is made up and you're entitled to your opinion even though it's wrong.

However, "not doing your job" and "not interested in quality" are slams. Perhaps you've been fortunate enough to be employed only in places that put no budget constraints on you. I don't work in such a place.

If hand crimping a cable is what's needed to get the user online instead of waiting 3 months for the next budget to pass, then I'll hand crimp a cable, test it, and be done with it. If it fails in six months, I'll make another one.

This isn't "a sign of a poor instalation done by someone not interested in quality or meeting standards" - it's how the real world works, not the utopia you seem to exist in.  It's not because I want to use "crap" to save money, it's because I have no choice.

Would I rather use factory cables? Of course I would, but if I don't have them nor the budget to buy them, that doesn't change my responsibility to keep the users online.  If I go to management and say "It's the factory-made way or the highway," then guess what -I'll be pounding pavement and somebody else will be making those "crap" cables.

And guess what else - you'll never be called here to "get things working right" because they're already working right. The cables I make work just as well as factory-made, whatever your opinions may be.
skip555 (TechnicalUser)
7 Feb 06 9:05

Quote:

However, "not doing your job" and "not interested in quality" are slams. Perhaps you've been fortunate enough to be employed only in places that put no budget constraints on you. I don't work in such a place.

and your parroting of wires nose in the air comment is ?

your quote
"If you can't make a decent cable how good is your workmanship overall?"
your 2 cents
"That pretty much says it all."

is a compliment or a "slam" ?

throw mud , expect to get muddy

(I'll bet you will go through whatever hoops necessary to get your vacation days , to get a raise . )
 

 
wires (TechnicalUser)
7 Feb 06 10:23
"so WIRES you can suggest that my "workmanship overall is lacking " becouse I choose not to make cables  but my observation  that you your more interested in cutting cost by using SCRAP CRAP"

No.

I am suggesting that it is time to give "scrap is crap" a rest because it is simply not true. I have seen bad workmanship on factory and custom made cables. From my standpoint all patch cables are equally suspect. I would put my cables up to the same level of reliability as factory cables and in fact you cannot tell the difference between mine and ones from Panduit's factory.

If you would just take time to read you would see that I say that custom cables are usually more expensive than factory made ones. I do buy and use factory made cables because they cost the customer LESS than custom work by getting the job done faster. However if I don't have the lengths I need on a job I have no problem making custom cables to fit.

I do wonder how you can assume that a person that can properly wire a jack, patchpanel or punchdown cannot properly wire a plug since the level of difficulty is about the same. This observation is a general question about the concept of skill level not about anyone in particular. I assume your skills are fine while you assume that anyone who makes a custom cable is suspect as evidenced by the following comments.

"not doing your job"

"not interested in quality"

"more interested in cutting cost by using SCRAP CRAP  than providing a quality job"

"I may actully be the guy they call out to get things working right ."

"I'll bet you will go through whatever hoops necessary to get your vacation days , to get a raise"

These are direct insults to individual members of this forum and as such are unacceptable. This forum is for the spread of knowledge, not inaccurate truisms and insults.
ppearce (TechnicalUser)
7 Feb 06 14:42
Long answer:
There is no TIA/EIA Component Specification for a Category 6 plug.  There is a specification for a test plug used during de-embedded tests of components, but it is not a commercially available product and is not designed to be used in any portion of a cabling infrastructure.
There is also no such thing as a "Category 3" plug, or a "Category 5" plug, or a "Category 5e" plug.  See FCC Rules, 47 C.F.R. Part 68, which defines required characteristics for modular plugs and Terminal Equipment. See also ANSI/TIA/EIA 568 B.2.
Short answer:  
Use a plug that conforms to FCC Part 68, manufactured by a company in which you have confidence.
Phil
Infinity306 (IS/IT--Management)
7 Feb 06 15:55
Scrap Crap is Crazy, you get boots and are competent and the cables test, there is no way anyone except the people who know or are there when you install will know.
wires (TechnicalUser)
7 Feb 06 16:45
FCC 47 C.F.R. Part 68 only applies to components attached to the Public Switched Telephone Network. It is not applicable to LAN usage except possibly on modems.

Manufacturers design their components to perform to various "category" requirements. If you want cat6 performance you need to use cat6 parts.

Short answer:
Use a plug that is designed for the cable you are using that is manufactured by a company in which you have confidence.
oldtimerbob (TechnicalUser)
7 Feb 06 19:23
Let's see here,
You can buy patch cords in a great many various lengths from 6 inches to 14 feet (the limit is 20 by the way) VERY
cheaply,much more so than the time it takes to measure,cut,terminate and test each one,plus they are factory tested.
(testing with anything more than a simplecontunity tester would be prohibitive in the field if you are making a lot of them),(Besides even many upper grade field testers will not test a length if it is too short).

Not too bad to do your own if you have the time.

When you start getting into fiber cords,then it makes a difference.

I too have made many cords in the field but only when I had to in order to get the job done quickly at the time with no patch cords around.

Besides,you are gonna do what you want to do anyway.

Good Luck
Infinity306 (IS/IT--Management)
7 Feb 06 23:28
yes the cheap cost of patch cables makes them an idea if you have the time to order... another benefit of making your own is you can make a 12 foot or 16 foot cable to reach a computer that is just too far away from the jack to use a 10 or 15 foot cable comfortably but a 20 foot or 15 would have too much slack cable... there are advantages to both.. sometimes when getting a lot of patch cables ordered misshipments can be made and detected at the last minure which causes problems too..

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