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Dimandja (Programmer)
5 Mar 05 9:51
As in "Martha Stewart must wear an electronic anklet 24 hours a day during house arrest".

In the off chance a day runs a little longer...

__________________________________________
Try Forum1391 for lively discussions

BillyRayPreachersSon (Programmer)
5 Mar 05 10:43

Quote:

In the off chance a day runs a little longer...

She may only have been required to wear it during business hours, for example... In which case it would have read "8 hours a day".

I guess they could have said "all day", but then some picky person would have said "well, what about at night time"? Saying "24 hours a day" covers that base too.

Dan

The answers you get are only as good as the information you give!

hotfusion (TechnicalUser)
6 Mar 05 4:28
Would perhaps the expression 'continuously' have served better here?

Regards, Andy.
**************************************
My pathetic attempts at learning HTML can be laughed at here:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/index.htm

mmorancbt (IS/IT--Management)
6 Mar 05 7:29
We were driving yesterday when the radio weather anchor said, "There is a chance that it might rain."

Actually, there is a chance that it WILL rain.  Chance and might are unnecessarily redundant in this case.  In fact, there is a 100% chance that it might rain every day!  But there is a x% chance that it will rain on any given day.

Working with editors, however, starts to make you hyper aware but the fact is, I turned in many a paragraph with some interesting idioms and redundant phrases as well.  When you turn in 70,000 words, you are bound to muck a few up.... okay, more than a few.

FYI: I am starting two new book projects.  One is on business communications and I have been looking over this forum's post (among other sources) for tidbits and clues into confusing jargon and phrases.

Matthew Moran
http://www.cbtoolkit.com

asrisk (MIS)
7 Mar 05 7:27
Matthew

Quote (mmorancbt):

Chance and might are unnecessarily redundant in this case.

One might (if one were a pedant) argue that unnecessarily redundant was unnecessarily redundant?

-------
The joke cannot be found
The funny quote you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

mmorancbt (IS/IT--Management)
7 Mar 05 7:37
True...  I could argue that I placed the phrase for emphasis.  There are times that redundancy creates a stronger idea but I can't actually claim that I had put that much forethought into it.

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at: http://www.cbtoolkit.com
Musings: http://matthewmoran.blogspot.com
Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

jakeyg (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 7:39
is the technical term for that a tautology?

and for the English scholars out there
what is a preposition, how do you end a sentence with one and why shouldn't you?

it was in a TV program and I've wondered about it
god bless insomnia
jwenting (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 7:48
In fact, a few years ago there was a time correction on the Gregorian calendar which caused the last day of the year to be made 1 second longer.
During such an event she would be allowed to remove the thing during that second I guess :)
Dimandja (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 7:55
During the fall, we set our clocks back one whole hour.  Aaah... freedom.

<aside/>
By the way, how many men would choose to go to prison (rather than be "free") if it meant:
1. Get your full salary.
2. Go to the grocery store at will (there's beer there).
3. Watch TV all day, all night.

__________________________________________
Try Forum1391 for lively discussions

mmorancbt (IS/IT--Management)
7 Mar 05 8:03
A preposition is a word placed before a noun or pronoun to form a phrase modifying another word in the sentence.
 - from A Writer's Reference, Diana Hacker

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
to hell - to being the preposition
with good intentions - with being the preposition

At one time there was a rule against ending a sentence with a preposition.  However, that rule has long since been dropped in favor or clarity.

A claw hammer, not an ax, was the tool he murdered her with.

is preferable to

A claw hammer, not an ax, was the tool with which he murdered her.
- this morbid example is found in The Elements of Style, Strunk & White.

The first ends with a preposition but is clear and sounds less pretentious.

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at: http://www.cbtoolkit.com
Musings: http://matthewmoran.blogspot.com
Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

jakeyg (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 8:20
It's bad that I know so little about the language I speak

a polish couple moved in next door and the lady of the house asked me to read their sons english homework.   It was the most beautifully crafted thing I ever saw and then she said that he'ld split the infinitive

I couldn't have said where to save my life.   I still couldn't
mmorancbt (IS/IT--Management)
7 Mar 05 8:31
Well, I mentioned two titles above that would help you understand that.

However, as a general rule, natural sounding language is very effective in most cases.  Certainly there are rules to follow but even the most strict fall in the face of clarity and understanding.

A lot of writing is rigid and contrived.  One simply way to assess your own writing is to read it out loud.  Or have someone else read it to you.  It tends to expose confusing writing or phrases that sound unnatural and out of place.

For instance, I would credit you with breaking up your thoughts by spaces - something that is often not done on discussion forums or in email.  Long post, without a visual break is difficult on the eyes and mind.

Look up the titles above.  They are well-organized and easy to read and use as reference books.

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at: http://www.cbtoolkit.com
Musings: http://matthewmoran.blogspot.com
Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

SilentAiche (TechnicalUser)
7 Mar 05 8:32
A long time ago I heard about a "contest" to see how many prepositions one could stack at the end of a sentence.  The winner was something like this:

(child to parent at bedtime)

What did you bring that book that I didn't want to be read to out of up here for?

Tim
tsdragon (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 8:37
Amazingly that sentence makes perfect sense!

Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.

CrystalStart (IS/IT--Management)
7 Mar 05 9:08
I am enjoying mostly when someone correcting someone and then another person correcting a corrector, isn't it funny?
CajunCenturion (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 10:04

Quote:

A claw hammer, not an ax, was the tool he murdered her with.
is preferable to
A claw hammer, not an ax, was the tool with which he murdered her.

You could also say, "He murdered her with a claw hammer, not an ax."  This could lead into a discussion about active or passive voice, but that probably deserves its own thread.
-----
Back to the original question, I think the use of 24 hours a day is in response the perception of 'day', and it being ambiguous.  To many, 'day' only refers to the daylight hours.  To others, it refers to a 24-hour period.  She must wear the anklet all day.  Does she have to wear it at night?  Yes, she has to wear it 24 hours a day.

I understand the claim that '24 hours a day' is a tautology because strictly speaking, it is.  On the other hand, in the common vernacular, it's also a disambiguation.

Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

flapeyre (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 11:21
When Winston Churchill was told he should not end a sentence with a preposition, he responded with

Quote (Churchill):

This is something up with which I will not put!

Illustrates the absurdity of this so-called "rule".

Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni!

CajunCenturion (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 11:37
To be precise, Chuchill said the following:

Quote (Churchill):

This is the kind of impertinence up with which I shall not put.
He was not trying to illustrate the absurdity of the rule, but rather to illustrate that rigid adherence to the rule may be awkward.

One of the primary reasons for not ending a sentence with a preposition is that it's too easy to neglect the object -- implied or stated -- for that preposition.  In Mr. Churchill's sentence, the object of the preposition (impertinence) still exists, although it precedes the preposition.  Even though the ordering is unusual, the grammar is correct.  However, in the question "Where are you going to?", there is no object of the preposition; therefore, the question is grammatically incorrect.  All prepositions must have objects, even if implied.

Good Luck
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To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

SkipVought (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 11:42


The above stated..

"Where are you going to?" is not really a question, as long as Where is the place to which the person is going.

This may be though of in terms of "Who's on First," which is a statement of fact as opposed to a question.

Skip,

Be advised: The dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac, lays awake all night wondering...
"Is there really a DOG?"

CajunCenturion (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 11:55
That's Hardyly what I was talking about SkipVought.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

SkipVought (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 11:59


"That's Hardyly..."

???

It was in Lou of the Bud of my joke!

Skip,

Be advised: The dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac, lays awake all night wondering...
"Is there really a DOG?"

CajunCenturion (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 12:04
Lou who?  This flowerly language must come to an end.  I can hardly Stan it.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

CajunCenturion (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 12:07
Whoops!  I was confusing Laurel and Hardy with Abbot and Costello.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

SkipVought (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 12:12


Bud: "Our center fielder is a girl, you know."

Lou: "Is that so."

Bud: "No, it's Sue."

Lou: "Sue, who?"

Bud: "That's right; Sue's our first basemen's wife!"

Skip,

Be advised: The dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac, lays awake all night wondering...
"Is there really a DOG?"

SkipVought (Programmer)
7 Mar 05 12:32

CODE

Select Case x
  Case "First"

  Case "Justin"
    
  Case Else

End Select
...
some of our colleagues never heard "Who's On First." by Abbot and Costello...

http://www.whos-on-first.com/1/home.htm20.html

BTW, the snippet I posted was from a Hudson & Landry routine; circa 1970

Skip,

Be advised: The dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac, lays awake all night wondering...
"Is there really a DOG?"

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